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Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

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Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#181

Post by sofixa »

_fat_santa wrote: post #126
quaffapint wrote: post #66

I'm vaccinated and boostered by my own choice. My problem with mandates is where does it end? Why this mandate and not other mandates? Who gets to decide that?

What's aggravating is all the "feel good" policies that fly in the face of the current state of the pandemic. We have gotten to the point where numerous officials have said something along the lines of "vaccines won't protect you against getting Omicron, masks don't really do anything either". So you think. Ok, we have gotten to the point where these measures are ineffective, so lets do away with the measures. And th…

Any more details on the "masks don't work thing"? It's news to me, and i don't see how that could have changed - masks, even cloth ones, but even more so for surgical and N95 types, drastically limit how much virus you spread when you're contagious; and especially N95 also offer some protection against catching it. Especially for crowded places, masks seem like a no brainer.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#182

Post by yonaguska »

tzs wrote: post #36
msoad wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eating five cheeseburgers a day increase the rush of death too. We don’t have laws against it.

The effects of eating five cheeseburgers a day are spread out over decades. The result of a group of people choosing to each five cheeseburgers a day is a tiny increase in the average load on the health care system over many many years. The effect of COVID on the health care system is a large short term spike in load. It is almost always in almost all systems much easier to deal with a long term small steady increase…

> result of a group of people choosing to each five cheeseburgers a day is a tiny increase in the average load on the health care system over many many years.

You are exaggerating and minimizing all at the same time. It doesn't take five cheeseburgers a day to wreck your body. The healthcare system is overloaded, and has been for years precisely because of how many health issues come from our poor diets.

> The American Diabetes Association (ADA) released new research on March 22, 2018 estimating the total costs of diagnosed diabetes have risen to $327 billion in 2017 from $245 billion in 2012, when the cost was last examined.

> This figure represents a 26% increase over a five-year period.

https://www.diabetes.org/resources/statistics/cost-diabetes

These numbers have only gone up.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#183

Post by xadhominemx »

andrewclunn wrote: post #169
xadhominemx wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you really think Republicans are not getting vaccinated because they “don’t trust” pharma companies?

Speaking as a Republican who has not gotten vaccinated, yes.

Before COVID vaccines, Republicans on average trusted pharma way more than Democrats. In general, distrust in pharma is the effect, not the cause, of anti-vax sentiment.

I don’t know what’s going on in your specific case. I suspect you are comparing the health risk of vax to not vax, instead of the risk of vax to COVID, which is the comparison you should be making since everyone is going to get omicron eventually, but whatever.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#184

Post by josefx »

agency wrote: post #95
BitwiseFool wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not so sure about this. Call me a cynic, or even a Libertarian (gasp!) but it is generally not in the nature of government to wind down an apparatus that they paid so much for once "the threat" has passed. Now that governments have the infrastructure for requiring and/or showing proof of vaccination, it really isn't a stretch to think they will want to keep that system and have it be readily available for the nex…

Who is better situated to respond to a pandemic than the state? What is the alternative?

In Germany there were at least half a dozen members of parliament caught with their hands in the cookie jar for the money meant to buy masks alone. It would be interesting to see how many more used it to enrich themselves but the decisions enabling them where so hilariously badly written that nearly all the money spend on the masks was wasted.

You can write entire lists of how fucked up the governments response was. Government money for tests done under supervision of a professional? The same Dr. listed as on site contact in half the country. Repeated calls to get vaccinated? Government repeatedly blamed Doctors and population but never bought enough vaccines.

The government response around here can be summed up as corrupt incompetents fucking up the economy while playing the blame game. I could not think of a group objectively less qualified to respond.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#185

Post by jaywalk »

falcolas wrote: post #64
peteradio wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Anti-vax stance is a self correcting problem. Natural immunity is long and strong baby. You'll be waiting a while.

"... researchers looking at SARS-CoV-2 antibodies in people who had recovered found that the difference between the highest and lowest levels varied by a factor of over 1,000. The researchers saw even more variability when they looked at neutralizing antibodies—those known to bind to the virus and prevent it from infecting cells. Neutralizing antibody levels in recovered people varied over a range of 40,000-fold, and…

Your article is from June 2020. Believe it or not, we have more data now!

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#186

Post by Hamuko »

Izkata wrote: post #86
Bhilai wrote: post #80

I am done. I did my part, wore masks (sometimes double masks,) three shots of vaccines and took all reasonable precautions that a sane person could do. But there are still unmasked people and unvaccinated people (sure, blame me for putting everyone in this binary category) and I am done caring about this class of people. I could not see my family for two years due to one or the other international travel restrictions…

> and I am done caring about this class of people. And their response will be "Finally! This is all we've wanted this entire time!" I don't think most here understand just how much "this class of people" value freedom over safety.

Considering the number of videos I've seen with people yelling at masked people, I'd say that they don't care about freedom at all (since apparently people shouldn't be free to wear masks whenever they want).

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#187

Post by sofixa »

tjr225 wrote: post #118
gibspaulding wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It has killed more than 865,000 Americans It looks like that's more Americans than have been killed in combat in all of the wars of the 20th century combined [1] Granted it's less than the UK lost in WW1 alone, so it's perhaps more a testament to how few the US managed to loose in the world wars (compared to Europe), but it's still wild to realize. [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/1009819/total-us-militar...

I know this is going to sound conspiratorial but I think you’d have to be pretty naive to accept the reported deaths in the US due to Covid to be that accurate. Hospitals(which in the US are for profit mind you) were quite literally given more money for reporting a death as a Covid death for a period of time. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/04/24/fac... Actually you could say it’s difficult to trus…

You can use excess deaths then, those numbers are even higher. And even if official Covid numbers are inflated, even tenfold, it's still a disease that resulted in a lot of death.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#188

Post by lern_too_spel »

jaywalk wrote: post #173
lern_too_spel wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is lots of precedent for winding down wartime laws. Libertarians think governments want to be authoritarian for the sake of being authoritarian, but that is not how democracy works.

Let me know when the USA PATRIOT act finally expires (without pieces being made into permanent laws).

Many parts of the USA PATRIOT Act have expired. https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/05/31/411044789...

Other parts have been modified. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA_Freedom_Act

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#189

Post by alamortsubite »

Freak_NL wrote: post #159
rajup wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok but what do you propose though? The vaccinated still spread COVID granted at a lesser rate. A permanent mask mandate? COVID is not going away.

If we're doing masks permanently I am going to invest in some bespoke Darth Vader style of head dress or a space suit, because I am completely done with masks. I've made and used home sewn masks using one of the recommended sewing patterns for the past two years, and I've managed to get a good fit that only fogged up my glasses partly, but since last week these masks have been banned here in the Netherlands. Not beca…

Motorcyclists have a great trick to eliminate fogging- after cleaning, rub a little shaving cream onto the lens. It's simple, cheap, and effective. Add a proper-fitting KN95 mask and the difference will be like night and day. There's no need to dress up like Darth Vader (though that might be fun, regardless).

Masks can be uncomfortable. My biggest gripe is actually the awkwardness that sometimes accompanies taking them off and putting them on again. Especially when also wearing glasses, a hat, and/or a helmet. But given my girlfriend wears full PPE for her 12-hour shifts treating COVID patients without ever complaining about getting enough oxygen, I hope the rest of us will bear masking up while we're in the AH or on public transport. Compared to the shit she deals with, it's a minor inconvenience, at best.

Also, maybe I'm wrong but my feeling is the fear of altercation over mask wearing is overblown. I live in a semi-rural part of the United States where masks are a very political and contentious issue (probably more so than in NL). I regularly interact with people strongly opposed to them, and am often in crowds where few if any other people are wearing one, but in the past two years have never experienced any kind of confrontation. Perhaps I'm lucky and my size and physical appearance is intimidating to those who would otherwise pick a fight.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#190

Post by sudosysgen »

tazjin wrote: post #83
sudosysgen wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The medicine is not indicated to be given to serious cases. It is indicated for use as soon as possible, when you have your first symptom. Right now this isn't the case because there aren't enough to go around, but this is the premise of the trials, so this is how they will be sold. People also get COVID more than once.

The vast majority of people isn't going to get a specific, probably expensive medicine for what amounts to a cold for most people. I certainly won't. If anything they'll take some aspirin/paracetamol and rock on.

The medicine will almost certainly be heavily subsidized. Plenty of people take Acyclovir for cold sores and things like Buckley for colds.
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