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The old internet shows signs of quietly coming back

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Re: The old internet shows signs of quietly coming back

#281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not, with web-rings? I don't mean that snarkily: I have at least 2-3 webrings on my personal link page, and neocities is home to literally hundreds more.

Web-rings are linked lists, slow to navigate. Google gives you hashtable access to the web.

Maybe being slow to navigate is actually a feature, standing against the endless algorithmic torrent of 5 second tiktok videos and meme doomscrolling.

You're supposed to take your time checking out cool shit people make for the love of it.

Re: The old internet shows signs of quietly coming back

#282
post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can +1 a database `views` column without storing anything at all about the user. If you’re just doing that you’re good to go

I mean, most "unique view counters" store the users IP address, so that would be right out. I'm fairly sure even being aware of what complying with a complex legal documents implies constitutes enough of a complication that it's worth mentioning. It is a complication, but I believe it's worded so that small companies and individuals are immune from its consequences.

You could always hash the IP on the client side before sending it to your counter. That way you have no information which you can backtrack to a specific IP and therefore a person.

Re: The old internet shows signs of quietly coming back

#283

How many of you mourning the old internet frequent neocities or have their own personal website ? I don't think the the answer is 'a lot'. Everyone on HN complains about everything being turned into a business but everyone also wants to create their own start up and turn it into a unicorn.

Best analysis I've read on HN in a long while. Straight to the point. My generation (the people between 35 and 50) is the most nostalgic about the good ole Web of yore, yet we are the generation that turned it into the ad-ridden cesspool we currently complain about. What we're missing is not the Internet-that-was, rather our ability to spend time on useless projects in a wilder environment without thinking about the economic implication. In a way we just miss being young. Our only advantage was that our parents' generation mostly didn't know what we were doing (especially here in Europe), so they certainly didn't expect for us to get a dime out of that blipety-bloop computers or whatever-they're-doing-in-their-room. The good news is that a big part of that Web is still alive, in different ways, in small secluded forums and communities, inside multiplayer gaming platforms, and so on. The problem is that today EVERYTHING can be monetized, and everyone is sort of expected to do that. Just remove the layer that tech capitalism has ingrained in our brain, and you'll see the old internet is still here. We just changed, and capitalism adapted is all. Do something for the sake of doing it. On the Internet or otherwise, and you'll magically get back at least a sliver of that feeling you're missing.

Re: The old internet shows signs of quietly coming back

#284
I started an open, special-interest community based around a mailing list (SMTP) around ~30 years ago, pre-Web 2.0, in a time when a lot of folks were glad to just be able to send email on the Internet, let alone browse it with some fancy browser thingy.

Its still running and still functioning as a social network.

The Internet is only as strong as its protocols, which is to say it is extremely strong because there are more than one protocol to use for the purposes of communication.

The crazy thing is, the cyclomatic complexity of dealing with communication over email versus through some web-based interface, is pretty much not comparable. Email is much easier to use - if you treat email with the respect it deserves. But I think so many generations of Internet users were taught to use email derisively, or non-productively, so it 'feels' like a downgrade to go back to text-based email. Top-quoting vs. bottom-quoting, rich text versus plain, X-headers versus custom .sigs, there is a huge list of things that can go wrong with email-based social networking, but ultimately the proof is in the pudding: we're still running. We still have occasional flame wars and the odd exodus of favourite members, but we also have regular returns of long-lost members who make their way back to the mailing list after a few years of hell on the other networks.

So, for 30 years, we've been doing the social networking thing just fine.. Functionally, we have the same degree of internal communication in our group as any Facebook groups - only, we're 100% in control of our own data and no third party can (easily) shut down the discourse. I consider this one of the factors for why we've survived 30 years as a group without implosion - there is no control point besides the mailserver itself, and that is protected by an admin whose understanding of human interaction precludes interfering when things get toasty ... so when people leave, they leave. We don't care, its not part of our business model to capture eyeballs, etc.

That said, we are pretty small and don't get many new members popping in, although we welcome it. Perhaps thats a blessing, maybe its a curse. We'll see in another 30 years, I'm guessing ...

Re: The old internet shows signs of quietly coming back

#285

How many of you mourning the old internet frequent neocities or have their own personal website ? I don't think the the answer is 'a lot'. Everyone on HN complains about everything being turned into a business but everyone also wants to create their own start up and turn it into a unicorn.

I've been running my own self-hosted blog server, IRC server, git server and (more recently) Nextcloud server for almost two decades. And I definitely have no interest in turning them into unicorns: they're just my space on the Internet, and not everyone is willing to turn their houses into party mansions. Most importantly, nobody but myself (or maybe a massive DNS/BGP outage) can take these spaces down, which is a pretty big pro in today's centralized world.

But I'm also aware of being an exception. I'm aware that people, on average, don't like to run their own servers. So just let people be people. I don't like all this nostalgia about how good the times of BBS, IRC, RSS feeds or self-hosted websites were, because these things still represent they way I consume the Internet in 2022. People have changed all around, sure, hype mounts and dies, but I don't care. People are people, let them put all of their pictures and sensitive information on a computer run by a creep like Zuckerberg if they like. But I'm unwilling to compromise and follow this craze.

Re: The old internet shows signs of quietly coming back

#286

The Internet today feels like a big box strip mall in suburbia. While visiting my home town, I looked for a local, independent hardware store. There was only Home Depot and Lowe's. Then I realize how few independent businesses were left. On the Internet, you have Google, Amazon, Reddit, Facebook, Twitter. Much of the good content is hidden in their secret gardens (Facebook, Twitter, and increasingly Reddit). Discover…

I used a "high street filled with shops" vs "public library filled with books" analogy for the current internet vs old internet a year or so back:

" ...imagine you live in a town which has a high street filled with shops trying to sell you things, and a public library filled with books trying to tell you things. If you want to buy something you go down the high street to look at the shops, and if you want to read something you go into the library to look for a book. Both activities can co-exist - good libraries do not put shops out of business or vice versa. But you don't want both activities to happen at the same time - you don't want a library filled with salespeople trying to get between you and your books, because that would be distinctly unhelpful at best and downright annoying at worst. The problem is that the internet has turned into a city that is all shops and no libraries. Not even local independent shops at that, just giant out-of-town retail malls... "[0]

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25454867

Re: The old internet shows signs of quietly coming back

#287

How many of you mourning the old internet frequent neocities or have their own personal website ? I don't think the the answer is 'a lot'. Everyone on HN complains about everything being turned into a business but everyone also wants to create their own start up and turn it into a unicorn.

Anecdatum: I have maintained my web site since 1995 and have my own domain since 1999 ( http://t3x.org ). I have never had a "business" nor have I dreamt about big money. Give me back the old internet anytime!

I like your 'Who am I page'.

I have started an 'old internet' like website about 3 years ago and I love working on it. It is my space of creativity and freedom. If you want to check it out it is in my bio.

I think the reality is that no one really want these websites anymore.

Re: The old internet shows signs of quietly coming back

#288

cough Look at the forest you're in. Everybody mourning the "old" internet while posting on a text only news board with a great community of people, constant traffic, new inspiring stuff daily and best of all without ads or pervasive trackers.

Also the top link right now is pointing to a forum : https://community.letsencrypt.org/t/2022-01-25-issue-with-tl...

Re: The old internet shows signs of quietly coming back

#289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got bored the other day and thought it would be funny to make a copy of the most expensive NFT and set that as my Twitter profile picture because they added that silly feature. So I downloaded MetaMask, got everything set up, and went to one of the NFT marketplaces to try to make one. Uploaded the image and got a big scary warning: > (paraphrased; I don't have a screenshot) This image was found too many times on th…

This is Moxie's point. Web 1.0 is actually decentralized and permissionless. You can actually host that image on your own Web 1.0 without any gatekeepers being involved.

Not strictly speaking true. Your local government can raid your servers for serving content that violates local laws, or in cooperation with a foreign one.

Re: The old internet shows signs of quietly coming back

#290

How many of you mourning the old internet frequent neocities or have their own personal website ? I don't think the the answer is 'a lot'. Everyone on HN complains about everything being turned into a business but everyone also wants to create their own start up and turn it into a unicorn.

Anecdatum: I have maintained my web site since 1995 and have my own domain since 1999 ( http://t3x.org ). I have never had a "business" nor have I dreamt about big money. Give me back the old internet anytime!

... well there goes my weekend. Great looking site!
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