Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: Who has moved from the U.S. to Europe?

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

361–370 of 474 posts

Re: Ask HN: Who has moved from the U.S. to Europe?

#361

Post by tomxor »

nickpp wrote: post #331
tomxor wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because I'm wealthy, I can afford all of the things you get for free in Germany without it negatively affecting my way of life, which probably helps substantially, but that's part of America too. As an outsider, this looks like the biggest problem in the US. The EU is no utopia, but standards of living, environment and way of life is pretty good for the "not-wealthy". In the US, it looks like you can also have a pr…

> The EU is no utopia, but standards of living, environment and way of life is pretty good for the "not-wealthy". Romania and Bulgaria are part of the EU. Some 25-30 million people in total. Do you think the standards of living are "pretty good" for the non-wealthy Bulgarians?

If you are challenging my view as being selective I think that could be fair (if provided some statistics to combat my finger in the air analysis). I live in the UK which (was) one of the more developed members of the EU, so that probably does bias my view, and I have not visited the poorest members of the EU.

Even with this caveat, there is a difference in principle that I believe distinguishes the way of life for the less wealthy in the US compared to most of the EU. A big part of US culture seems to be something along the lines of "everyone for themselves", and "paying your own way", which neglects those not blessed with opportunity and seems to encourages larger wealth disparity. I do not believe most of the governments of the EU share this principle, but I welcome counter examples. That said, it's also not black and white: even the US borrows socialist tools to equalise such disparities where it's been proven to work best, such as public schools and libraries.

Re: Ask HN: Who has moved from the U.S. to Europe?

#362

Post by thehappypm »

oaiey wrote: post #229
arnath wrote: post #60

Moved from Seattle to Munich, Germany a few years ago. Biggest sacrifices: Pay is kind of a huge one. There are very few companies (even global ones) that pay the same in Europe as they do in the US. If I moved back to the US with my current company, I would get a ~70k/year increase in salary. Social situation is the other big one. It's hard to ever feel like you totally fit in as an expat. Biggest gains: Quality of…

When you consider all the add ons like healthcare, living costs, exchange rate, etc, the salary differences are no longer that off. In a calculation i did once with some co worker it ended up with a. $10k difference. And considering that the US culture is consume driven, that money is gone in seconds for crap.

Health care costs in the tech industry are not high. We might pay $100/month and have a $2000 deductible as an example plan. For someone making $100k that means 3% of their income is going to health care, maximum.

The problem with health care in the US is for middle / middle low earners.

If you’re very poor you qualify for Medicaid, but if you don’t, you might have a crappy expensive insurance plan that also has a high deductible, so you might pay a big chunk of your income to health care in a bad year. For techies, the cost is minimal. The system is extremely unequal.

Re: Ask HN: Who has moved from the U.S. to Europe?

#363

Post by jimbob45 »

wbsss4412 wrote: post #360
jimbob45 wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think my link above would be very helpful for you. It's not just about crime transparency, which is something that virtually every state signaled support for in 2020. It's every governmental activity including university meetings. You know it's working because people get caught trying to circumvent it[0]. The Attorney General hates it[1]. Without it, we wouldn't know about former governor candidate Andrew Gillum be…

Of those, the only thing I see as being actually significantly beneficial to the public would be the story about expired Covid tests. Knowing that a former gubernatorial candidate is/was a meth head isn’t a crowning achievement.

Gillum very likely would have run this year if he hadn't been caught like that.

Re: Ask HN: Who has moved from the U.S. to Europe?

#364

Post by hn2019 »

eternalban wrote: post #335
pintxo wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mostly the water provided by the municipality is drinking water quality in Europe. But sometimes the building and its water pipes will be so old that the pipes leak metals into the water.

No metals, this was white fluffy stuff floating in the water. And it was relatively a luxury apartment. Again this was 1977 so that's almost ancient history.

It was probably (hopefully?) just water scale from hard water building up mineral deposits on the insides of the pipes.

Re: Ask HN: Who has moved from the U.S. to Europe?

#365

Post by TameAntelope »

bakuninsbart wrote: post #283
TameAntelope wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my darker moments I tend to agree with you here, but what I then realize is that it's monumentally difficult to get a land of 330m people to agree, and when you've got a group of people that large, the worst groups will just be bigger and meaner. My worry for you is that this reaction is a visceral one, fundamentally rooted in a dislike for America's diversity. It's a messy process, getting everyone to work togeth…

Germany and the US have very similar levels of foreign-born populations.[1] Austria has a much larger muslim minority as a share of the population than the US, and the same goes for Germany.[2] While US politics are certainly more divisive, it is hard for me to see how it is more diverse.[3] Fully absent from your consideration is the fact that both Austria and Germany are part of the EU, a project in diversity maybe…

Foreign born population isn't what I said, I said diversity, which Germany has a lot less of (0.168200 in Germany compared to 0.490100 ethnic fractionalization). [0]

And EU diversity isn't anything like American diversity. Your countries are nothing like our states, our "mixing" is a lot higher.

The US has to solve problems of a kind and at a level Germany and Austria will never have to deal with. The scales just don't compare, it's laughable to even try.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_ranked_by_et...

Re: Ask HN: Who has moved from the U.S. to Europe?

#366

Post by burntoutfire »

nivenkos wrote: post #269
pizza234 wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Much, much higher salaries - like 2-3x higher than Western Europe _before_ income tax! Where does this number come from? Assuming SWE, a senior SWE in Europe will generally take around 80/120k € (non-FAANG). 2-3x means a range of 180/400k $, which is not common even in the USA.

> a senior SWE in Europe will generally take around 80/120k € (non-FAANG) Nowhere near - I got 75k EUR at a FAANG (whilst the same position in the US paid ~$165k USD - the levels were public). I now get 86k EUR in one of the most expensive countries in Europe (with over 40% tax rate too). But most Tech salaries are much lower, I started on the equivalent of $40k USD for example, and it's common for people to level ou…

Looks like you're underpaid, if you shop around 86k EUR is what you can get paid in Poland, doing remote work, and paying 12% income taxes...

Re: Ask HN: Who has moved from the U.S. to Europe?

#367

Post by TameAntelope »

bwb wrote: post #354
TameAntelope wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be happy to give more if I knew it wasn't going to people like who live in Harrison (for example). They deserve to rot in poverty for their regressive, racist views, and the hate the spews from that town and out into the rest of America. They do so much more damage than I ever could by making a good living.

You are describing a symptom not a problem. If you give people time and space to think, for their kids not to be stuck in poverty cycles, and for them to learn that Fox news is fear based propaganda this is how things get fixed. All Americans are stuck in a perpetual guerilla war that is American society, and until that changes nothing will change.

I used to agree with you, but I don't know if bringing people out of poverty helps them learn not to hate anymore. It's a good platitude, but it's not what I've observed here in NWA.

Re: Ask HN: Who has moved from the U.S. to Europe?

#368

Post by JKCalhoun »

nebula8804 wrote: post #240
JKCalhoun wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True. But if we're talking software engineering, everyone posting here is probably "privileged" in that regard. Let me just take this moment to say, holy shit what a fascinating time we all live in and what a happy accident it was that I stumbled into software engineering in this particular era. I'm not aware of a recent time in history when you could get what amounts to a doctor's salary without the lengthy schoolin…

The capital owning class are gunning to eliminate these salaries. "You will own nothing and be happy" is not something they just reserve for the lower classes. The future is hard to predict but don't rule out these outrageous salaries being gone in a decade or two and the market being much more middle/lower middle class type jobs.

I don't doubt you're right. The last three decades have been a "worker's market" for those of us lucky enough to have stumbled into a trade that Corporate desperately needed the services of.

I am doubly fortunate to be ending my career in this field. I have no idea what the future holds for those still in the field. It may well become a narrow path you need to hew to.

Re: Ask HN: Who has moved from the U.S. to Europe?

#369

Post by JKCalhoun »

notch656a wrote: post #109
JKCalhoun wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True. But if we're talking software engineering, everyone posting here is probably "privileged" in that regard. Let me just take this moment to say, holy shit what a fascinating time we all live in and what a happy accident it was that I stumbled into software engineering in this particular era. I'm not aware of a recent time in history when you could get what amounts to a doctor's salary without the lengthy schoolin…

What if you get that salary precisely because this field is free of the sort of inefficiencies and government regulation that drag on healthcare and doctors.

I would imagine there should be plenty of other fields just like it then.

Re: Ask HN: Who has moved from the U.S. to Europe?

#370

Post by busterarm »

WallWextra wrote: post #234

I recently moved from the US to Berlin. I plan to return to the US. Pros of Berlin: - Good transport - Bikeable - Safe - Cheaper than the big coastal cities in the US, with lower rent. - Good clubbing (not my thing) Cons of Berlin: - Healthcare is inconvenient. Doctor's offices won't pick up the phone, and won't leave you on hold. You just have to go in person. Providers all work in small doctor-owned practices, and…

- Everyone still smokes here.

Indeed. I complained about this elsewhere, but on the other hand I probably would smoke like a chimney if I lived in Berlin.

Post reply on HN