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$130B wiped off crypto markets in 24 hours

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Re: $130B wiped off crypto markets in 24 hours

#231

Post by sunshinerag »

dtech wrote: post #100
sschueller wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please explain to me how Bitcoin is a Ponzi scheme while USD after 1971 (going away from the gold standard) is not. More so explain to me how the USD is less of a Ponzi scheme when it is the super wealthy banks/institutions that are getting zero interest loans allowing them to make even more money while at the same time devaluating the currency.

Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies have ~zero inherent value, due to their non-speculation use-cases like payment being very limited or still early development (smart contracts). Unless you count BTC in black market I guess. USD has inherent value, it's the only currency where you can pay taxes in, and if you want to do business with government or government employees - who are ever only paid in USD - you must accept…

“ who are ever only paid in USD - you must accept USD”

Are you saying it’s inherent value comes from it being a protection racket.?

Re: $130B wiped off crypto markets in 24 hours

#232

Post by eli »

danaris wrote: post #214
eli wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couldn't you say that about basically anything? That it will eventually be really big or go away? Seems to me like bitcoin could keep seesawing on the fringes of relevance for a while. And people still buy tulips and beanie babies, albeit not anywhere near the prices at their height.

But that's because tulips and beanie babies have inherent value. Tulips are pretty flowers. Beanie babies are cute toys that you can play with. Bitcoin is a purely virtual financial instrument. It has no purpose other than to be worth money.

It created an entire industry of ransomware!

Re: $130B wiped off crypto markets in 24 hours

#233

Post by khuey »

jrochkind1 wrote: post #149
sschueller wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Switzerland's currency is quite strong and considered a safe heaven. Do you think Switzerland has the capability or would invade another country to collected tax from a few billion people?

I am not an expert in how currencies work, but it's worth nothing that Switzerland, like most countries, keeps most of it's own reserves in USD (presumably treasury bills), and has around 1 trillion in USD in reserve. Which is not unrelated to the value of it's own currency and their ability to stabilize it. But I am not claiming to be able to explain the details myself. https://www.ceicdata.com/en/switzerland/offici…

That number you're looking at is "total Swiss foreign currency reserves in units of USD" not "Swiss foreign currency reserves that are USD". Switzerland, for reasons that are fairly obvious, holds large Euro reserves. At the end of 2020 USD was only ~35% of that total amount.

Re: $130B wiped off crypto markets in 24 hours

#234

Post by soared »

karpierz wrote: post #99

I suspect that the crypto markets absorb excess investment money that the stock market cannot, because its saturated. Essentially, there are no other high potential yield investments to speculate on. So when the stock market goes down by a small amount, crypto will swing down by a larger amount, as investors pivot from crypto to the (now) underpriced stocks. But this is a just-so story, and would be hard to validate,…

With options there is no saturation of a market, since you don’t actually need to purchase/sell a stock in order to profit from it. Supply is effectively unlimited (I’m not following the gme debacle, but this is what registering shares was also about - trading in shares that don’t exist)

Re: $130B wiped off crypto markets in 24 hours

#235

Post by tiku »

soared wrote: post #216
CryptoPunk wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no idea what future crypto prices will do, but you do realize that smart contracts allow people to bank, from their browser with nothing but a MetaMask extension, without a bank, right? There's heavy dose of speculation present in any emerging market, but crypto, especially its smart contract sector, is not just speculation.

A digital wallet that can trade isn’t banking though. Can you direct deposit, pay rent, be fdic insured, etc with that solution?

What is banking anyway, in theory it is transferring x to x? Can be done through a digital wallet if both parties agree upon it. You just need a lot of parties to use that same system or easy bridges to send it through the old system.

Re: $130B wiped off crypto markets in 24 hours

#236

Post by UnpossibleJim »

dtech wrote: post #100
sschueller wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please explain to me how Bitcoin is a Ponzi scheme while USD after 1971 (going away from the gold standard) is not. More so explain to me how the USD is less of a Ponzi scheme when it is the super wealthy banks/institutions that are getting zero interest loans allowing them to make even more money while at the same time devaluating the currency.

Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies have ~zero inherent value, due to their non-speculation use-cases like payment being very limited or still early development (smart contracts). Unless you count BTC in black market I guess. USD has inherent value, it's the only currency where you can pay taxes in, and if you want to do business with government or government employees - who are ever only paid in USD - you must accept…

I'm curious about one thing as far as this statement goes... it's a little bit of a nonsequiter though. When/if the US starts to tax crypto and crypto gains, does that show that they have more of a legitimate value?

Re: $130B wiped off crypto markets in 24 hours

#237

Post by [deleted] »

rocgf wrote: post #182
elif wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

better than the cult of USD. how's that doing this year? or last year? or the year before? or ever? does it even have a THEORETICAL path to value? I'll take my currently existing and computationally reinforced and yes bubbly increase of value.

What do you mean a "theoretical path to value"? If I understand you correctly, I think you're implying that everything has to be speculative, like currencies too?

[deleted]

Re: $130B wiped off crypto markets in 24 hours

#238

Post by zozin »

streamofdigits wrote: post #116

There is no much point in arguing with a cult. This phenomenon will have to work its way through the susceptible demographic, meaning that the large majority of "speculators" will have transferred their disposable wealth to a minority of shrewd operators. The masses will subsequently be "seasoned", or immunized and will no longer participate, at best disappointed, disgusted and mildly embarrassed, at worst suffering…

No post body was provided.

Re: $130B wiped off crypto markets in 24 hours

#239

Post by z16a »

streamofdigits wrote: post #116

There is no much point in arguing with a cult. This phenomenon will have to work its way through the susceptible demographic, meaning that the large majority of "speculators" will have transferred their disposable wealth to a minority of shrewd operators. The masses will subsequently be "seasoned", or immunized and will no longer participate, at best disappointed, disgusted and mildly embarrassed, at worst suffering…

No post body was provided.

Re: $130B wiped off crypto markets in 24 hours

#240

Post by toufka »

eli wrote: post #225
tobrien6 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's backed by mathematics instead of a country. That doesn't make it better or worse, just different, and diversity is generally what people want in their portfolio.

It's not backed by mathematics any more than gold is backed by chemistry.

Uh, gold _is_ backed by chemistry. If gold were to change nearly any of its chemical properties, it would instantly lose its value. It is stable, generally non-reactive, non-toxic, lustrous, and of generally low abundance - all properties derived directly from its chemistry.

That is actually one of the strongest arguments, to my mind, for why some variant of a cryptocurrency will survive as a store of value. Gold kind of "organically" found its way into value almost precisely because it is backed by the physical laws of nature. Cryptocurrencies went up a level to be backed by the laws of mathematics.

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