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$130B wiped off crypto markets in 24 hours

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Re: $130B wiped off crypto markets in 24 hours

#201

Post by Suchos »

Fnoord wrote: post #60
Liron wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah if you’re just looking at the graph trend, you might only start panicking if BTC drops below the previous 2017 cycle’s peak of $19k.

Only for people who invested (I mean, speculated) before 2017. Those who started to speculate when BTC was 50k stepped right into the big pile of poo, and they have the choice to take their losses for current price, or to keep their assets ('HODL'). Either way, it remains speculation.

I jumped in right at 60k fully knowing it will either go to 500k or to zero. I will wait this out whatever happens.

Re: $130B wiped off crypto markets in 24 hours

#202

Post by 0x0 »

asimpletune wrote: post #181
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing about Bitcoin specifically, though, is that there are only really 2 possible outcomes: 1. The world decides it's "tulips" at some point, and the value goes to 0. 2. The world decides it will be a major part of the financial system, and it goes to 500k or 1 million. Basically, anything in between is just a probability calculation of whether it will end up at one end or the other. The problem with this, thoug…

I could be wrong about this, but I don't know if the energy requirements have anything to do with the price (I.e. demand) for the coin, does it? I was under the impression that the problems that you have to solve get predictably more difficult, and they're more of a function of time than price. But yes, with your point overall I agree, like in 10 years or something it doesn't seem workable without major changes. Wasn…

I guess if the price of BTC goes up, then it makes it more "worth it" to throw more energy at mounting a double-spend attack, and therefore the energy needed to protect the network against such an attack also goes up?

Re: $130B wiped off crypto markets in 24 hours

#203

Post by asimpletune »

tartoran wrote: post #148
khuey wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The USD is backed by the power to tax 330 million people. Bitcoin is not.

By that logic then the more populous a country is the stronger their currency should be. We don’t see that. It’s a bit more complicated than that..

I mean, it's sort of like that though isn't it? Maybe not quite so literally, but, yes, you'd have to admit that the USD gets its strength from being able to take 330M Americans.

Re: $130B wiped off crypto markets in 24 hours

#204

Post by zarzavat »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #146
skrebbel wrote: post #19

I own no crypto and I think it's a ridiculous piece of hype, but I think all that reporting (and, on twitter, all that schadenfreude) about bitcoin (etc) going down is nonsense. If you look at a 5 year chart of the BTC value, it's still super insane high and it's been going down hard once before (summer 2021). If I were a crypto fan I'd just tweet HODL like every previous time.

The thing about Bitcoin specifically, though, is that there are only really 2 possible outcomes: 1. The world decides it's "tulips" at some point, and the value goes to 0. 2. The world decides it will be a major part of the financial system, and it goes to 500k or 1 million. Basically, anything in between is just a probability calculation of whether it will end up at one end or the other. The problem with this, thoug…

> The amount of electricity needed to protect the network is directly tied to the price of BTC

This is not how proof of work functions. Hash rate and price are not directly related, they are somewhat correlated because when the price goes up it becomes more profitable to mine. Bitcoin doesn't need more hash rate for the price to go up - the price is the independent variable and the hash rate is the dependent variable.

Re: $130B wiped off crypto markets in 24 hours

#205

Post by matheusmoreira »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #146
skrebbel wrote: post #19

I own no crypto and I think it's a ridiculous piece of hype, but I think all that reporting (and, on twitter, all that schadenfreude) about bitcoin (etc) going down is nonsense. If you look at a 5 year chart of the BTC value, it's still super insane high and it's been going down hard once before (summer 2021). If I were a crypto fan I'd just tweet HODL like every previous time.

The thing about Bitcoin specifically, though, is that there are only really 2 possible outcomes: 1. The world decides it's "tulips" at some point, and the value goes to 0. 2. The world decides it will be a major part of the financial system, and it goes to 500k or 1 million. Basically, anything in between is just a probability calculation of whether it will end up at one end or the other. The problem with this, thoug…

> The amount of electricity needed to protect the network is directly tied to the price of BTC.

Why? I keep seeing this claim and it makes no sense to me.

Re: $130B wiped off crypto markets in 24 hours

#206

Post by eli »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #146
skrebbel wrote: post #19

I own no crypto and I think it's a ridiculous piece of hype, but I think all that reporting (and, on twitter, all that schadenfreude) about bitcoin (etc) going down is nonsense. If you look at a 5 year chart of the BTC value, it's still super insane high and it's been going down hard once before (summer 2021). If I were a crypto fan I'd just tweet HODL like every previous time.

The thing about Bitcoin specifically, though, is that there are only really 2 possible outcomes: 1. The world decides it's "tulips" at some point, and the value goes to 0. 2. The world decides it will be a major part of the financial system, and it goes to 500k or 1 million. Basically, anything in between is just a probability calculation of whether it will end up at one end or the other. The problem with this, thoug…

Couldn't you say that about basically anything? That it will eventually be really big or go away?

Seems to me like bitcoin could keep seesawing on the fringes of relevance for a while. And people still buy tulips and beanie babies, albeit not anywhere near the prices at their height.

Re: $130B wiped off crypto markets in 24 hours

#207

Post by CabSauce »

samarama wrote: post #122
dtech wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies have ~zero inherent value, due to their non-speculation use-cases like payment being very limited or still early development (smart contracts). Unless you count BTC in black market I guess. USD has inherent value, it's the only currency where you can pay taxes in, and if you want to do business with government or government employees - who are ever only paid in USD - you must accept…

Bitcoin’s inherent value is 1. Immutability 2. Limited supply 3. Censorship-resistance 4. Independence of governments, nations, banks, institutions, corporations 5. Accessibility You can also pay your taxes in crypto in many countries. The dollar’s inherent value is very weak and not really tangible. It’s 2022 and people still don’t get that.

All of those things are true (to varying degrees) of all of the thousands of crypto currencies. That's inherently the problem. As soon as another one comes along, the *value* of the earlier iterations gets reduced. There's no limit on the creation of new crypto currencies.

Re: $130B wiped off crypto markets in 24 hours

#208

Post by dpark »

fallat wrote: post #177
cuteboy19 wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

70% of Bitcoin holders bought in last year. A continuous stream of greater fools is necessary for its price to even remain at the current level Also, every ponzi scheme gives amazing returns, before it inevitably collapses. For example Madoff was able to give decent returns to his investors for 17 years! 'Number go up' is not a refutation of a ponzi scheme.

> A continuous stream of greater fools is necessary for its price to even remain at the current level. I think HN is going to need a good explanation for this. The value is intrinsic, and can go up without any activity happening... I think there are other fools scouring about here in the comments.

> I think HN is going to need a good explanation for this. The value is intrinsic, and can go up without any activity happening...

I think you need to explain this. In what way does bitcoin have any intrinsic value?

And how can this value go up without activity? A currency with no activity is literally worthless.

Re: $130B wiped off crypto markets in 24 hours

#209

Post by tobrien6 »

smoldesu wrote: post #199
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing about Bitcoin specifically, though, is that there are only really 2 possible outcomes: 1. The world decides it's "tulips" at some point, and the value goes to 0. 2. The world decides it will be a major part of the financial system, and it goes to 500k or 1 million. Basically, anything in between is just a probability calculation of whether it will end up at one end or the other. The problem with this, thoug…

I think the bigger issue is that Bitcoin has nothing backing it. It's value (and in turn, volatility) is driven by popular demand for the "asset", so even if there is some insane moonshot scenario where we do adopt it into the financial system, there's a very real chance that the price will collapse with little or no chance for recourse. That's the biggest issue, and it's one that's inherent to Bitcoin's nature as a…

It's backed by mathematics instead of a country. That doesn't make it better or worse, just different, and diversity is generally what people want in their portfolio.

Re: $130B wiped off crypto markets in 24 hours

#210

Post by sschueller »

rvz wrote: post #22

Magnificent and as expected. We needed a 'crash'. It is what we need to remove all the useless cryptocurrencies and projects that are only there to pump each other bags and exit scam retail investors. This is why you have people telling others to 'HODL' or 'never sell' with wild predictions of BTC going to 100K or DOGE going over $1. [0]. This is nothing. This is before the banning, and crackdowns of the other useles…

Doge hit over $0.50. That is absolutely insane, so insane that I thought it would never happen and I cached out my doge years ago for a small 2x profit. The markets don't make sense and no matter how you play it you are fool.
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