$130B wiped off crypto markets in 24 hours • Hacker News Board

Re: $130B wiped off crypto markets in 24 hours

#91

Post by LightG » Mon, Jan 24, 2022, 2:39 PM UTC

Liron wrote: post #48

skrebbel wrote: post #19

I own no crypto and I think it's a ridiculous piece of hype, but I think all that reporting (and, on twitter, all that schadenfreude) about bitcoin (etc) going down is nonsense. If you look at a 5 year chart of the BTC value, it's still super insane high and it's been going down hard once before (summer 2021). If I were a crypto fan I'd just tweet HODL like every previous time.

Yeah if you’re just looking at the graph trend, you might only start panicking if BTC drops below the previous 2017 cycle’s peak of $19k.

Well, looking at the graph trend, there's an argument that it should be trading at $15 when you take out speculative bubbles.

Who knows.

Re: $130B wiped off crypto markets in 24 hours

#92

Post by msy » Mon, Jan 24, 2022, 2:40 PM UTC

ashtonkem wrote: post #75

dandare wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A stable crypto-currency will not attract any investment. Crypto is useless for anything but money laundering and speculation.

The idea of a "currency"[0] attracting investment is kinda crazy in its own right. Normally currencies don't attract investment; you can bet on the difference between them, but you usually "invest" (buy) large amounts of it specifically to do business with the country or economic entity that issued it. You buy Euros to do business in the EU, not to "invest" in the currency itself. 0 - Which crypto currencies actually…

Betting on the difference between is done by buying and selling them. I'm no defender of cryptocurrencies but speculation and trading have been a major feature modern forex markets since their inception.

Re: $130B wiped off crypto markets in 24 hours

#93

Post by podgaj » Mon, Jan 24, 2022, 2:41 PM UTC

akmarinov wrote: post #30

carabiner wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the catalyst for all this? Did it start with Netflix?

Rates are going up, so stocks are being cashed out to be invested in better yielding bonds

I want to push the cause further back. The problem is not that rates are going up, the problem is that rates were close to zero for so long,

Re: $130B wiped off crypto markets in 24 hours

#94

Post by khuey » Mon, Jan 24, 2022, 2:41 PM UTC

sschueller wrote: post #89

podgaj wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin is probably the first Ponzi scheme where everyone in it knows it is a Ponzi scheme. So I agree with your take here.

Please explain to me how Bitcoin is a Ponzi scheme while USD after 1971 (going away from the gold standard) is not. More so explain to me how the USD is less of a Ponzi scheme when it is the super wealthy banks/institutions that are getting zero interest loans allowing them to make even more money while at the same time devaluating the currency.

The USD is backed by the power to tax 330 million people. Bitcoin is not.

Re: $130B wiped off crypto markets in 24 hours

#95

Post by macacoprego » Mon, Jan 24, 2022, 2:42 PM UTC

dragontamer wrote: post #14

mule1 wrote: post #2

Okay? And 1.5 trillion was wiped off of the US equity market.

US equity doesn't pretend to be a low risk investment vehicle resistant to inflation worries.

did you just said that crypto pretends to be a low risk investment?

Re: $130B wiped off crypto markets in 24 hours

#96

Post by matheusmoreira » Mon, Jan 24, 2022, 2:42 PM UTC

dandare wrote: post #63

Hokusai wrote: post #12

That's all the point of crypto-currencies, they need to go up and down to enable speculation. Pump and make it go up. Dump and it goes down. Someone is cashing the difference. A stable crypto-currency will not attract so much speculative investment.

A stable crypto-currency will not attract any investment. Crypto is useless for anything but money laundering and speculation.

I've gotten paid for code in XMR. It's great and absolutely useful. I wish everyone used it.

Re: $130B wiped off crypto markets in 24 hours

#97

Post by johnebgd » Mon, Jan 24, 2022, 2:42 PM UTC

podgaj wrote: post #80

Fnoord wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you own cryptocurrency, and its all gone down, you're invested and can do two things. You can keep hold of your assets, or you can sell. If you sell, you can decide to share such or not, but since you are no longer invested, there's no incentive to share such (and if you're part of a pump and dump scheme, you don't want people to lose trust so your incentive is to say HODL while doing otherwise). So it makes sense…

Bitcoin is probably the first Ponzi scheme where everyone in it knows it is a Ponzi scheme. So I agree with your take here.

USA has natural resources, advanced technologies, and a standing armed forces that are stationed all over the world. These extract value and serve as utility.

Bitcoin is better at laundering money than many fiat currencies but otherwise it’s only wide scale utility is a speculative investment asset that only increases in value if more people create demand for its limited supply.

Re: $130B wiped off crypto markets in 24 hours

#98

Post by ethanbond » Mon, Jan 24, 2022, 2:43 PM UTC

khuey wrote: post #94

sschueller wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please explain to me how Bitcoin is a Ponzi scheme while USD after 1971 (going away from the gold standard) is not. More so explain to me how the USD is less of a Ponzi scheme when it is the super wealthy banks/institutions that are getting zero interest loans allowing them to make even more money while at the same time devaluating the currency.

The USD is backed by the power to tax 330 million people. Bitcoin is not.

And, ultimately, the power to invade the other few billion people who can’t be taxed

Re: $130B wiped off crypto markets in 24 hours

#99

Post by karpierz » Mon, Jan 24, 2022, 2:43 PM UTC

I suspect that the crypto markets absorb excess investment money that the stock market cannot, because its saturated. Essentially, there are no other high potential yield investments to speculate on. So when the stock market goes down by a small amount, crypto will swing down by a larger amount, as investors pivot from crypto to the (now) underpriced stocks.

But this is a just-so story, and would be hard to validate, given that there are going to be a lot of confounding factors.

Re: $130B wiped off crypto markets in 24 hours

#100

Post by dtech » Mon, Jan 24, 2022, 2:44 PM UTC

sschueller wrote: post #89

podgaj wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin is probably the first Ponzi scheme where everyone in it knows it is a Ponzi scheme. So I agree with your take here.

Please explain to me how Bitcoin is a Ponzi scheme while USD after 1971 (going away from the gold standard) is not. More so explain to me how the USD is less of a Ponzi scheme when it is the super wealthy banks/institutions that are getting zero interest loans allowing them to make even more money while at the same time devaluating the currency.

Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies have ~zero inherent value, due to their non-speculation use-cases like payment being very limited or still early development (smart contracts). Unless you count BTC in black market I guess.

USD has inherent value, it's the only currency where you can pay taxes in, and if you want to do business with government or government employees - who are ever only paid in USD - you must accept USD.