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22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage

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Re: 22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage

#171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He has support from his family.

For sure, but I bet not all kids with support from their family do cool things. Or put it in the other way, you have to prove yourself worthy before getting any fund (even from parents).

What this "kid" has done in his garage would still be impressive with more than modest support from the venture community.

Re: 22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage

#172
post #89

Whenever this comes up I like to say it would be nice to reinvent small scale chip fab with less toxic materials if possible.

What are the toxic chemicals used in chip fab? (serious question) I have literally all the chemicals mentioned in the first chart on this page in my modest maker garage, sans arsenic and phosphine; though anyone with certain rat poisons would have them. There doesn't seem anything more toxic than what you would find in your run-of-the-mill chemical research lab. One time I got to handle a few liters of trimethylsilyl…

Recently I've read a 1985 interview with a Soviet IC factory worker where phosphine, arsenic, antimony and hydrofluoric acid were named. Workers explicitly shut down their managers' plans to use pure phosphine. A death caused by arsine poisoning was mentioned.

Re: 22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage

#173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard to compete with FAANG, Finance, and Consulting. Unfortunately, that's where a lot of people end up.

Yes, and that's why we should be taxing the hell out of these companies. It's not just about raising revenue. It's about allowing other companies to compete with them.

Why should I, as a young person, support a policy intentionally punishing companies for competing over my labor power just to make it so I have to work for petit-bourgeois small tech companies that can't pay as much?

Re: 22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage

#174

I'm more interested how he managed to master the knowledge of chip manufacturing plus a ton of electronics repairs (see his microscope and other equipment) at such an early age. Very admirable. Look at what he did: > Photolithography machines are expensive—up to $150 million—and so Zeloof made his own by bolting a modified conference room projector bought on Amazon onto a microscope. It projects his designs at tiny s…

Think of all the kids who might start working on automotive stuff at 8 years old, building race car parts or engines or go karts. Then imagine the best of the best of thousands of them with parental? resources to build out a great kit and tinker with a lot stuff. This guy is the semiconductor equivalent.

Re: 22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage

#175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That means that country that will do that will not have competitive big tech companies and other countries will have. Also, big companies are needed because there are technologies that cannot be produced by small companies. I do not understand recent tendency to make them look bad. Big companies are good for country and economy. Punishing companies for success is harmful for the progress. I think letting market decid…

This is not a recent trend. America has had a big political issue over large industry since day one. The Jeffersonian vision of a nation of yeoman farmers (who maybe owned slaves) vs. an industrial economy built on science and technology. This shows up in debates over railroads (anti-trust laws start here). It leads to the financing of canals, and cars (more democratic forms of transportation). It leads to subsidies…

I agree that central distinction between industrial economy vs. yeoman is a big cultural clash in the US.

I don't see what makes cars more "democratic" or anti-trust as firmly on the "yeoman" side of things.

Re: 22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage

#176
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least in the US, they're generally limited to salaries on the "general schedule", and management gets paid more than technical people, because "it wouldn't be fair" to have subordinates that make more than you. So there's a built-in glass ceiling for tech careers. https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/salaries...

Maybe “it’s not fair to have subordinates earn more” was the justification given to you, but businesses rarely make decisions based on what’s fair. Engineers are valuable, but individual engineers are largely replaceable. Being able to coordinate a large group successfully also has a lot of value.

Think it has a lot more to do with proximity to those controlling the purse-strings.

Intra-firm compensation is not nearly as "rational" as you are making it out to be.

Re: 22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage

#177
post #64

Anybody has a good estimate of how much this kind of home fab can cost? I am trying to do this in my own apartment (its going very slowly heh) and I estimate it would be USD100000. USD10000 would be barely believable if I can get that broken electron microscope for the same price he did. ($1000). Seems like the vacuum system would be the most expensive part. Another one would be random consumables (vacuum grease, oil…

Sam has a video where (among other things) he covers some of the ancillary equipment needed to run the electron microscope.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJXio_jpc_Y

He doesn't mention costs directly, but this video covers the facts that they had to do some additional plumbing work, additional electrical work, there's a big-ass voltage transformer he had to acquire, etc.

I also wonder how much the shipping costs were on that machine. Unless they were able to pick it up locally with a rented van, shipping alone might have exceeded the cost of the unit. Shipping pallets of fragile gear with specialized handling constraints is not cheap.

My high school turned down a free electron microscope (a college was getting rid of it, I think) for reasons such as this. Even if you can get the microscope for free there are other costs, space requirements, etc.

Re: 22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage

#178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and that's why we should be taxing the hell out of these companies. It's not just about raising revenue. It's about allowing other companies to compete with them.

That means that country that will do that will not have competitive big tech companies and other countries will have. Also, big companies are needed because there are technologies that cannot be produced by small companies. I do not understand recent tendency to make them look bad. Big companies are good for country and economy. Punishing companies for success is harmful for the progress. I think letting market decid…

> I think letting market decide is better choice. Overregulation leads to decrease in competition and production.

Not intrinsically, obviously, as anti-trust clearly shows. I am not anti-big intrinsically, for many of the reasons identified.

But I do think there are obvious downsides to be guarded against. If anything, as technology improves, technological barriers to entry should decrease and less big companies will be needed to work on certain advanced technologies.

Re: 22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage

#179
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe “it’s not fair to have subordinates earn more” was the justification given to you, but businesses rarely make decisions based on what’s fair. Engineers are valuable, but individual engineers are largely replaceable. Being able to coordinate a large group successfully also has a lot of value.

Think it has a lot more to do with proximity to those controlling the purse-strings. Intra-firm compensation is not nearly as "rational" as you are making it out to be.

Is it really proximity to the purse string? Because even large, profitable founder-led tech companies, where founders have full control and motive to run the company efficiently, adopt middle management. And what evidence is there that middle management is unnecessary? The only evidence presented is theoretical critiques from engineers who feel they stand to gain from the removal of management.

Re: 22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage

#180

I'm more interested how he managed to master the knowledge of chip manufacturing plus a ton of electronics repairs (see his microscope and other equipment) at such an early age. Very admirable. Look at what he did: > Photolithography machines are expensive—up to $150 million—and so Zeloof made his own by bolting a modified conference room projector bought on Amazon onto a microscope. It projects his designs at tiny s…

Think of all the kids who might start working on automotive stuff at 8 years old, building race car parts or engines or go karts. Then imagine the best of the best of thousands of them with parental? resources to build out a great kit and tinker with a lot stuff. This guy is the semiconductor equivalent.

I'm very interested in his childhood education.

I want my kid to start early on something he is interested in too but I don't really know how to do that. I know the general rules (expose him to a lot of stuffs, watch him do things, etc.) but don't know how to implement them properly. I myself wasted a lot of time in my childhood so I guess that's why I don't know how to do it properly.

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