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Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant

reuters.com

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Re: Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant

#151

Post by mc32 »

reaperducer wrote: post #146
MathCodeLove wrote: post #130

I've actually been considering a move to Ohio this June. Any suggestions for whetr in Ohio I should look? My main consideration is low CoL as I work remotely but I'd like there to be stuff to do within a reasonable driving distance.

When people ask me about Ohio, I always whole-hartedly recommend Cincinnati. But then you added "stuff to do within a reasonable driving distance," and I think that tips the scales in favor of Cleveland. And if you want to leave the car at home, you can take Amtrak from Cleveland to New York, Chicago, Toronto, Philadelphia, Baltimore, and D.C. I still love Cincinnati, but until international flying gets back in order…

Isn't Cincinnati excessively humid? On the other hand I hear the winters are cold but they lift pretty quick and don't linger on.

Re: Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant

#152

Post by fullstop »

MathCodeLove wrote: post #130

I've actually been considering a move to Ohio this June. Any suggestions for whetr in Ohio I should look? My main consideration is low CoL as I work remotely but I'd like there to be stuff to do within a reasonable driving distance.

Most people are trying to move in the opposite direction. With that being said, here's a few interesting things about Ohio:

  1. Vehicle safety inspections are not required
  2. It's very flat, but their flag is the only non-rectangular state flag
  3. Due to an oversight (congress never voted -- oops!), Ohio was not officially admitted to the union until 1953.
If you want stuff to do within a reasonable distance you might want to look at the eastern side, near Pittsburgh.

Re: Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant

#153

Post by reaperducer »

brewdad wrote: post #44
missedthecue wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ohio is situated on the great lakes and therefore has a lot of cheaply available water, while Arizona does not. Chip production is water intensive. Not to mention the vast expanses of cheap land, and their electricity costs are pretty low as well. These could be reasons.

Water in AZ is some of the cheapest in the country. At least until Lake Powell runs dry. Not a bad idea to spread the risks around however.

At least until Lake Powell runs dry

Which is coming a lot quicker than anyone expected. It's why all of the cities and water authorities hooked up to Powell and the other Colorado River reservoirs are in panic mode these days.

Just a few weeks ago, the various states came to an agreement about cutting water use. Lake Mead is at historic lows. There are mandatory federal restrictions either in effect, or about to start.

Re: Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant

#154

Post by hnov »

bbreier wrote: post #136
galangalalgol wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the only thing an ev actually needs chips for is charge controllers which can be old fab tech, and motor controllers which aren't normal silicon or tiny feature size. Tesla is using silicon carbide, and gallium arsenide will probably be next. The Bollinger takes this route of minimalism. Ironically, an EV has less reliance on processing than a modern ICE vehicle.

Also the infotainment. And real questions because I'm genuinely curious: do driver assists (ABS, ASR, TCS) and their adjustments rely on processors? What about in-car adjustments to suspension height, ride firmness, throttle response (e.g. eco vs sport vs comfort modes)? Lane keep assist, blind spot checking, adaptive cruise control all seem like things that would require processing power as well.

Even headlights and brake pedals (brake by wire) have ICs in them these days, I doubt getting rid of a PCM will make an EV less IC heavy.

Re: Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant

#155

Post by rxhernandez »

N1H1L wrote: post #138
gaoshan wrote: post #122

This is actually a brilliant location for them. One of those places that has much more going for it than people not from the region would realize. International airport, large rail depot, extremely low cost of living and a city/region that has more good restaurants and activities than might be expected. Ohio State University is in the city and is a huge school that is rapidly growing in academic standing. Road transi…

The midwest has some of the greatest engineering schools in the nation. I have been beating this drum hoarse for a few years now - but it's true. Specifically, members of the Big 10 conference are probably the best engineering schools conference in the world. Within 300 miles from Columbus (where you have Ohio State - Big10), you have Penn State, Michigan, Michigan State, UIUC, Indiana, Purdue from the Big 10 along w…

I'm sure there's more great ones in California but I can count 14 off the top of my head; I think all of them are nearly within 300 miles of LA too.

1. Caltech

2. Stanford

3. Cal

4. UCLA

5. Harvey Mudd

6. USC

7. UCSD

8. UCD

9. UCSB

10. CPSLO

11. UCI

12. CPP

13. UCSC

14. UCR

Re: Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant

#156

Post by SV_BubbleTime »

galangalalgol wrote: post #106
SemAntics0 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Great Lakes region has a surprising concentration of advanced manufacturing skillsets. With large manufacturing facilities with extremely stringent quality standards like a bleeding edge chip fab there's going to be a enormous need for people with traditional manufacturing-specific support skillsets that are simply not available in large quantities anywhere else in the US. If the current administration's support…

the only thing an ev actually needs chips for is charge controllers which can be old fab tech, and motor controllers which aren't normal silicon or tiny feature size. Tesla is using silicon carbide, and gallium arsenide will probably be next. The Bollinger takes this route of minimalism. Ironically, an EV has less reliance on processing than a modern ICE vehicle.

Automotive EE here…

> the only thing an ev actually needs chips for is charge controllers which can be old fab tech, and motor controllers

I wish I had the time to explain how this could not be more wrong.

Quickly, I’ll mention that the vehicle I’m working on has 8 separate modules for the driver’s seat. Inside these modules are a combined total of 10 processors with as many bootloaders and flash procedures and validation records and crypto and peripheral drivers, 17 CAN-FD modules, 6 system basis chips, 9 switching power supplies with a number of accessory LDO supplies, at least 40 more “chips” of various functions and capacities… for just the driver’s seat alone

The steering wheel buttons for radio left and right side and the cruise control comprise 3 modules and power supplies and etc etc.

>The Bollinger takes this route of minimalism. Ironically, an EV has less reliance on processing than a modern ICE vehicle.

I know what you are trying to say, but it is largely incorrect. The EVs still have “engine” control modules and powertrain systems. Instead of figuring out injector pulse widths, they’re calculating deliverable torque. The ABS/brake controllers are more complex, the battery heating and cooling systems require modules and processing, the HVAC, the transmission, steering systems, everything is more complex compared to ICE with an old ample supply of hydraulics and coolants and a simple fuel that is stable and usable at all storage temps fed into a mechanical device.

I’m not trying to be confrontational, but you couldn’t be more wrong about automotive electronics.

Re: Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant

#157

Post by nradov »

bbreier wrote: post #136
galangalalgol wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the only thing an ev actually needs chips for is charge controllers which can be old fab tech, and motor controllers which aren't normal silicon or tiny feature size. Tesla is using silicon carbide, and gallium arsenide will probably be next. The Bollinger takes this route of minimalism. Ironically, an EV has less reliance on processing than a modern ICE vehicle.

Also the infotainment. And real questions because I'm genuinely curious: do driver assists (ABS, ASR, TCS) and their adjustments rely on processors? What about in-car adjustments to suspension height, ride firmness, throttle response (e.g. eco vs sport vs comfort modes)? Lane keep assist, blind spot checking, adaptive cruise control all seem like things that would require processing power as well.

Most current vehicles use separate embedded microcontrollers for those features. In principle it's possible to build a car with a single powerful processor controlling everything, but the engineering becomes far more challenging and you need a higher level of vertical integration on the parts supply chain. There are also safety risks: you don't want an LKA code defect to cause a TCS failure. And wiring harness would have to grow to carry all the separate data signals.

Tesla is partially going the integration route but they still have many separate processors in the car.

Re: Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant

#159

Post by buscoquadnary »

MathCodeLove wrote: post #130

I've actually been considering a move to Ohio this June. Any suggestions for whetr in Ohio I should look? My main consideration is low CoL as I work remotely but I'd like there to be stuff to do within a reasonable driving distance.

If you are looking at Northern Ohio, Strongsville, North Royalton, Solon, Perrysburg, Parma Heights, Massillion all are decent places.

Re: Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant

#160

Post by SV_BubbleTime »

hnov wrote: post #143
galangalalgol wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the only thing an ev actually needs chips for is charge controllers which can be old fab tech, and motor controllers which aren't normal silicon or tiny feature size. Tesla is using silicon carbide, and gallium arsenide will probably be next. The Bollinger takes this route of minimalism. Ironically, an EV has less reliance on processing than a modern ICE vehicle.

Do EVs not have all of the ancillaries hanging off CANBUS or something? Or is the lion's share of chips in an ICE vehicle engine and transmission control?

Of course.

There isn’t an EV in the world that is less complex than it’s ICE counterpart. GP is very mistaken. I wrote a longer explanation above.

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