Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant • Hacker News Board

Re: Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant

#41

Post by jandrese » Fri, Jan 21, 2022, 5:10 PM UTC

missedthecue wrote: post #28

flybrand wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why not all AZ? Game theory between US states playing to get the most gov’t assistance? Finite pool of talent? Our plants are in rural areas and everyone is struggling to hire, from auto to bakeries.

Ohio is situated on the great lakes and therefore has a lot of cheaply available water, while Arizona does not. Chip production is water intensive. Not to mention the vast expanses of cheap land, and their electricity costs are pretty low as well. These could be reasons.

I thought that while chip production uses a lot of water, the water is mostly not consumed in the process and due to environmental regulation the water has to be cleaned at the plant so they form a closed loop system. It takes a lot of water when the plant is built, but after that it requires only a small amount of water to continue running.

Re: Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant

#42

Post by vgeek » Fri, Jan 21, 2022, 5:12 PM UTC

titzer wrote: post #10

vavooom wrote: post #6

"largest investment in Ohio's history" "the largest semiconductor manufacturing location on the planet" What is it that makes Ohio such a key and ideal place for such a massive investment? I assume there must be an abundance of energy + work force + land available that makes this possible, as well as a foundation built up by the Rust Belt. Could the Rust Belt go Silicon?

That and incredible tax breaks. I'm originally from neighboring Indiana. The midwest should have figured this out long ago, but political corruption, the coal lobby, and a lack of imagination has really blinkered the long-term planning there.

New Albany has a lot of corporate headquarters relative to the size of the city, even when you exclude the Les Wexner (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Les_Wexner) companies. Big Lots, Red Roof Inn and Bob Evans are the most prominent, but there are lots of other major companies with measurable presence (one of the two AWS US-EAST-2 DCs & a FB DC), too. From looking at the town's operating plan, The New Albany Company (a planned community, where Wexner & friends have/can buy up all of the swampy farmland they want and grow the city limits as necessary) already have lots of land (both for C&I and residential) and can offer tax breaks/rebates that can't be matched for corporations, instead relying more on the taxes from the residential developments of $500k+ homes (probably 1.5-2x MSA median) in the area (if you want to see a gerrymandered map, look up New Albany-- it is very deliberate in excluding multi-family developments from the city limits).

Re: Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant

#43

Post by belval » Fri, Jan 21, 2022, 5:12 PM UTC

devwastaken wrote: post #30

Quoted post unavailable.

This is a bit of a weird take to me. I don't know anything about Ohio (maybe it's a shit hole) but large investment will raise the living standards. California is beautiful, diverse and whatnot, but it's not like there is something in the air that makes it that way. The influx of people and capital is what makes it special. Same for NY and most higher density areas.

Re: Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant

#44

Post by brewdad » Fri, Jan 21, 2022, 5:12 PM UTC

missedthecue wrote: post #28

flybrand wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why not all AZ? Game theory between US states playing to get the most gov’t assistance? Finite pool of talent? Our plants are in rural areas and everyone is struggling to hire, from auto to bakeries.

Ohio is situated on the great lakes and therefore has a lot of cheaply available water, while Arizona does not. Chip production is water intensive. Not to mention the vast expanses of cheap land, and their electricity costs are pretty low as well. These could be reasons.

Water in AZ is some of the cheapest in the country. At least until Lake Powell runs dry. Not a bad idea to spread the risks around however.

Re: Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant

#45

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jan 21, 2022, 5:12 PM UTC

mNovak wrote: post #38

bee_rider wrote: post #3

Good luck to them! Always nice to get as much semiconducter talent in-country as possible, fabs are a pretty crucial supply line after all. I'd imagine most people would want a pretty significant pay raise to move to somewhere like Ohio, but they are nearby Ohio State University, so maybe they'll get local talent.

Depending on where they're moving from, they might take a pay cut.. Ohio is very cheap to live in. New Albany is not particularly exciting, but nearby Columbus is a nice vibrant city, not the end of the earth. OSU is a definitely good asset for Intel, they put out 2k engineering degrees a year. I hope this spurs a nice tech ecosystem for Ohio--it's been dominated by insurance and medicine for a long time.

[deleted]

Re: Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant

#46

Post by thoughtpalette » Fri, Jan 21, 2022, 5:13 PM UTC

devwastaken wrote: post #30

Quoted post unavailable.

Growing up in Michigan and moving to Chicago (12 years), I sort of felt the same. Recently visited Cincinnati though and it was kind of amazing. Little town in a "valley", Nice river front, people and shops were nice. Good downtown feeling. Would def consider it a low cost of living place on my radar now.

Re: Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant

#47

Post by BeetleB » Fri, Jan 21, 2022, 5:13 PM UTC

devwastaken wrote: post #30

Quoted post unavailable.

I'm guessing you've never been to Columbus and have little idea on what it's like there.

Plenty of people go to top schools in that part of the country for their PhD. If they're willing to spend 5-7 years doing that, I can see them willing to work there.

Also, if people moved to the middle of nowhere in New York to work for GF, or Burlington, VT - I think they'll be OK with Columbus.

Re: Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant

#48

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jan 21, 2022, 5:13 PM UTC

onepointsixC wrote: post #29

jimbob45 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gratuitous subsidies from the US government. Also this is a great move in my eyes. Intel's HQ is on the West Coast and I imagine that they lose out on at least some portion of East Coast talent as a result. Hopefully this allows them to have the best of both worlds.

The US gov is seriously under investing compared to it's peers. South Korea is spending nearly 9 times more with their $450Bn pledged gov investment into Semiconductors[0] compared to America's investment of $52Bn with the CHIPS Act[1] [0]: https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Tech/Semiconductors/South-K... [1]: https://www.dispatch.com/story/news/2022/01/14/heres-what-yo...

[deleted]

Re: Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant

#49

Post by foobiekr » Fri, Jan 21, 2022, 5:14 PM UTC

mungoman2 wrote: post #8

How do the economics work here? Intel's market cap is $215B.

Intel is fabulously profitable and throws off $12B a year of free cash flow, most of these projects take 5-10Y. That's $60-120B investment without borrowing, which - well, capital is cheap at the moment.

Re: Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant

#50

Post by ksec » Fri, Jan 21, 2022, 5:14 PM UTC

missedthecue wrote: post #28

flybrand wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why not all AZ? Game theory between US states playing to get the most gov’t assistance? Finite pool of talent? Our plants are in rural areas and everyone is struggling to hire, from auto to bakeries.

Ohio is situated on the great lakes and therefore has a lot of cheaply available water, while Arizona does not. Chip production is water intensive. Not to mention the vast expanses of cheap land, and their electricity costs are pretty low as well. These could be reasons.

Modern Fabs can recycle its water usage by up to 90%. Electricity cost for Business in both state seems to be about the same. Land are cheap as well ( From what I have been told ).

You do get operational efficiency from having Fabs all located within one place. And that is a quote from TSMC's ex-CEO Morris Chang. That is why I wonder if there is something missing. Or is it the simplest explanation Not to put all eggs in one basket.