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Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

jasonstanford.substack.com

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Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#141
post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When did tipping become 20%? The majority of my life it was 15%. Then at a certain point I started hearing 18%. Now it is 20%? Who is behind this?

Social norms. But, yes, it's creeped up from 15% before tax to 18-20% on the total bill in general.

Yes, but social norms don’t come out of nowhere. It was 15% for a long time, then it went to 18% (why 18? I can see the jump to 20% as people wanting to do easier math than 18%). Someone somewhere had to have created this new social norm.

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#142
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you'll find that servers and bartenders are the most adimant supporters of tipping. They make a killing.

Making a killing is pushing it unless you're working at a high end place. I really wonder how many HN people have ever worked in a waitstaff role. As much as you might hate it, tips keeps you just above minimum wage 95% of the time. Its not some money fountain like some people here seem to thing it is. People who want tips of course want it because it gives them money on top of minimum wage, why the hell would you ex…

I worked at several restaurants, and not high end ones. on average, I probably made 25% over minimum wage. I had essentially zero marketable skills at the time, so my only alternatives actually paid minimum wage. I was a big fan of tipping.

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#143

It's a shame that the comments here are laser focused on the tipping parts of the article, and not the bigger picture items. The author outlines the struggles of getting service jobs filled in high CoL areas, the vicious cycle of turnover in these jobs, and all the commenters here want to discuss is the 2 paragraphs on tipping.

Besides the author’s v points about the poor working conditions, I was struck by the points about transit costs. I am curious how much of the current labor situation in the US can be explained by the combination of 1) geographic wealth segregation —- richer consumers clustering together while generally poorer service workers have to live far away —- and 2) high gas prices / underdeveloped public transit. At some point as both of these factors increase, there should be a big drop off in available workers. Is this consistent with the pattern we are seeing?

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#144

I am always baffled when I read about the tip culture in the states. I find it so belittling for workers. It seems to incentivize a mentality of "the customer is always right", with workers putting an extra effort to always smile and be nice in the hope for a fair tip.

Yet somehow the service in the US is 10x better than in Europe.

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#145

It's a shame that the comments here are laser focused on the tipping parts of the article, and not the bigger picture items. The author outlines the struggles of getting service jobs filled in high CoL areas, the vicious cycle of turnover in these jobs, and all the commenters here want to discuss is the 2 paragraphs on tipping.

What's always disappointing to me is how for many the first instinct is "lazy young people" while often times the exact same people espouse "the free market". It seems to me that often times the same people really only care about low taxes for themselves and making away with regulations that annoy them, rather than truly embracing the mechanism and tradeoffs that come with a free market and for sure don't understand…

No post body was provided.

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#146
I used to work crappy jobs too and they sucked really bad so I dedicated my life to getting the next slightly less crappy job. More qualified people move out and new people move in and the pipeline stays full. If the service you are selling has any value then valuable people will work there.

The problem is that nobody in their right mind would see a movie in a theater these days. Your only customers are people who are all a few cards short of a full deck.

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like you'd still have two customers (The burger is still in 'workin man''s budget), at 2/3 the food cost.

You are right, but I removed him to make the point that this is partly based on perception of the person doing the buying. Workin man this week is poor man next week and then some weeks he's richy rich. Do you want to capture all forms of this guy? None of this is rigorous of course but ya know we don't have a town full of 1 guy with a single budget. We have a town full of people with various and changing budgets, wh…

[deleted]

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#148
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you'll find that servers and bartenders are the most adimant supporters of tipping. They make a killing.

Making a killing is pushing it unless you're working at a high end place. I really wonder how many HN people have ever worked in a waitstaff role. As much as you might hate it, tips keeps you just above minimum wage 95% of the time. Its not some money fountain like some people here seem to thing it is. People who want tips of course want it because it gives them money on top of minimum wage, why the hell would you ex…

If you want a real look at things, I'd suggest looking at servers discussing places that try to eliminate tipping. When tipping is discussed generally, it's often discussed like in this article - talking about how restaurants are only paying $2.13 an hour, how this or that customer didn't tipped or tipped almost nothing, how on this particular night they made almost nothing, etc.

But if you talk about getting rid of tipping and replacing it with a living age? Look at the comments from this Reddit discussion some years ago (so the numbers are even higher when you factor in inflation) discussing Joe's Crab Shack's interest in getting rid of tips[1]:

> But if you are doing good volume and the prices arent insanely cheap I cant see how youre only making $15 an hour. Are you in a poor section of town where people dont have much money? Do you get a lot of foreign tourists as clientele? I mean, $15 an hour I can make while asleep. But Im in Philly. Prices arent insane usually but they arent cheap. Plus its one of the best tipping cities in the country. Personally I wont take a shift if Im not confident Ill make at least $20 an hour. For me its not worth my time.

**

> This may or may not be close to the industry standard, but my last restaurant, I probably made somewhere around $25/hr (tips + wage). Restaurant before that was way more high volume, and even though we didn't really get paid an hourly wage, I would guess we made about $30/hr or so. On good nights and the bartenders? Probably even more.

**

> I was bored out of my mind all 6 hours of my shift tonight and made $14X, so call it $150, aka $25 an hour. Oh, and that's with a stiff on $120, and a $6 on $94

**

> Because serving tables isn't a job anyone would do for $7.75 an hour. It's not an easy job to excel at. I'll stay making my $25 an hour. Thanks.

**

> This is what people outside of the industry don't seem to get. Strong servers arn't going to stick around for anything less than $20 an hour.

[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/TalesFromYourServer/comments/4iuy2q...

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#149

The article isn't surprising at all. Workers rights are very poor in the USA. The people that are the worst off when this is the case is the lowest ladder of workers and service industry is in that camp. If you want these industries to stay open you'll need better workers rights. For example allowing such a poor minimum wage when tipping. Things like at-will working and such like don't help here either. At the drop o…

Xmas has traditionally been a very busy day for movie theaters. Going to the movies is a popular way to spend the day in the US.

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like you'd still have two customers (The burger is still in 'workin man''s budget), at 2/3 the food cost.

You are right, but I removed him to make the point that this is partly based on perception of the person doing the buying. Workin man this week is poor man next week and then some weeks he's richy rich. Do you want to capture all forms of this guy? None of this is rigorous of course but ya know we don't have a town full of 1 guy with a single budget. We have a town full of people with various and changing budgets, wh…

> what kind of mechanism can be put into place to keep base finances workable in tight times while extracting more in good times?

Surely there must be a way because every other business seems to manage, and so do restaurants in 50%+ of the world.

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