No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation • Hacker News Board

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#281

Post by mint2 » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 4:23 PM UTC

asdf_snar wrote: post #170

endisneigh wrote: post #42

Of course it isn’t. Drink water. Unfortunately some people believe they can’t enjoy themselves without alcohol. It’s curious: - babies have fun without drinking - kids have fun without drinking - some teens have fun without drinking Then at some point some people, as adults, feel like they have to drink to enjoy themselves? I wonder what happened. Edit: explicitly clarifying that I’m only talking about some people he…

> Then at some point people, as adults, feel like they have to drink to enjoy themselves? I wonder what happened. It feels like this question is disingenuous. You don't need fire starter to start a fire either, but wouldn't it be silly to conclude fire starter doesn't make starting a fire easier? Moderate alcohol consumption in an intimate environment is a lot of fun. Put differently, if alcohol didn't present such s…

More apt analogy than one would think. lighter fluid and any product specifically labeled a fire starter do not really help if one has a basic understanding of fire except in extreme cases like for some reason the wood is soaking wet. And they have significant downsides in cost. lighter fluid is just gross. With even a modest understanding of how fire works all one needs is wood. Newspaper is good for charcoal.

“Fire starter” products are mostly only useful to people who don’t know what they’re doing or aren’t actually using it to start the fire but want to squirt in lighter fluid just to see big flames.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#282

Post by kritiko » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 4:23 PM UTC

pkulak wrote: post #21

mmastrac wrote: post #11

Alcohol is one of the worst "drugs" on a personal/societal harm scale - if we're going to tolerate this at large, we should probably consider legalizing everything else that's less harmful to at least be consistent. While we're at it, let's de-stigmatize the abuse of substances and treat it like a real mental health issue.

Do you really think it's worse than the current wave of synthetic opioids? I think I could even make a good case for cigarettes being worse than alcohol.

the parent said "one of the worst" not the worst.

also, at least for now, cigarettes are legal, which just bolsters the point above.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#283

Post by api » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 4:24 PM UTC

DamnYuppie wrote: post #10

Yes but a moderate amount with good friends is great for my soul.

I've wondered for a long time if the studies showing health benefits from alcohol are being confounded by the health benefits of socialization, which often involves alcohol in many societies. People who drink less might (statistically) socialize less.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#284

Post by colechristensen » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 4:24 PM UTC

IvanK_net wrote: post #37

That is strange. But I am sure a small amount of cigarettes is good for lungs.

Smoking cigarettes actually has a protective effect for contracting covid. You’re less likely to get it but if you do the outcome is worse.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#285

Post by darod » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 4:24 PM UTC

kstrauser wrote: post #159

Although I live in a place where weed is legal, I don’t use it. I enjoy the occasional glass of a nice scotch, though, and I love a good stout or porter beer. This is where it gets a little strange for me: by every metric I can think of, I’d be better off replacing alcohol with weed. There seem to be fewer negative effects, it’s not a source of empty calories, and looks like a better recreational drug in every way. A…

"it’s not a source of empty calories"

Until you get the munchies...

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#286

Post by jancsika » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 4:24 PM UTC

mmastrac wrote: post #11

Alcohol is one of the worst "drugs" on a personal/societal harm scale - if we're going to tolerate this at large, we should probably consider legalizing everything else that's less harmful to at least be consistent. While we're at it, let's de-stigmatize the abuse of substances and treat it like a real mental health issue.

Just to show how facile this reasoning is, let's flip the bit:

"Alcohol is one of the worst 'drugs' on a personal/societal harm scale - if we're going to tolerate this at large, we should make sure we keep other drugs illegal by default unless shown individually, through decades of research, to be safe. Otherwise we will burden our healthcare system and create a national catastrophe. As evidence of this danger, I submit the history of alcohol abuse, drunk driving, and liver disease, and their effects on our healthcare system."

I offer that you can only do one of two things now:

1. Argue against my advocacy for inconsistency using personal incredulity

2. Provide a deeper argument that relies on something more than an appeal to consistency

Edit: added a clause to sweeten my argument for inconsistency

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#287

Post by LeonM » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 4:24 PM UTC

DamnYuppie wrote: post #10

Yes but a moderate amount with good friends is great for my soul.

This reminds me of something a friend once told me. This was about 10 years ago, he was a commander for the navy at the time.

In the navy, while at sea, you are expected to drink during social events. Alcohol is considered the 'social engine' of the ship.

Now I must disclaim that obviously the crew wasn't forced to drink. Those on guard, or who had any medical, religious or other objections were dismissed. And naturally they have very strict limits, as getting intoxicated on board of a operational warship would be very dangerous.

But, with moderate use, alcohol was (at least back then) viewed as an efficient method to prevent stress and mutiny among the crew. It probably is still today.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#288

Post by bt1a » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 4:24 PM UTC

kevinmchugh wrote: post #142

steelstraw wrote: post #57

Everything is a balance though, isn't it? If a little alcohol reduces one's stress and increases socialization, then they may be better off with the alcohol on net.

It's not obvious that alcohol reduces stress.

Alcohol consumption increases cortisol production, so I'd say the opposite is true.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#289

Post by wonderwonder » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 4:24 PM UTC

lancesells wrote: post #193

BirAdam wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All drugs should be decriminalized. Shooting people in drug raids is far worse for those people than are the drugs. Likewise, locking people in cages with other misfits, criminals, malcontents, and addicts isn’t smart (especially considering that drugs are in the prisons too). If the goal is truly harm reduction, people need to simply work to convince drug users to not use drugs (whether those are opioids, alcohol, t…

I'm not refuting and generally agree with your sentiment here in harm reduction but I tried to see the collateral damage of drug raids vs drugs. In the US the CDC reported 100,000 overdoses from drugs in the 12 months preceding April 2021[1]. I can't find how many people die from drug raids specifically but this Al-Jazeera article shows 1,068 people being killed by the police a year after George Floyd died[2]. And fo…

Now count how many people are sitting in jail for marijuana possession and the impact that arrest has over the course of their lives.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#290

Post by WillPostForFood » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 4:24 PM UTC

999900000999 wrote: post #123

sokoloff wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m generally pro-legalization, but there are many things that we hypothesize are safe but do not know the long-term effects of and, within living memory, have discovered that many things initially thought safe were not. People were taking X-ray images of shoe fit in department stores, we used thalidomide to treat morning sickness, etc. What society says is legal has an effect on how it is perceived and how frequentl…

I can guarantee you the most dangerous part of using any substance is our legal system. Legalize everything for anyone 21 or older, and while we're at it, raise the enlistment age to 21. If you're old enough to die for this country, you should be old enough to light a j in it.

And raise the voting age to 21 too?