how about the last 2 years ? about 4% of eligible workers stopped working (60% vs 64%)
Basic income would not reduce people’s willingness to work
131–140 of 786 posts
Re: Basic income would not reduce people’s willingness to work
#132Multiple studies of where basic income was tried in the real world found it to reduce work. For example, "Manitoba, Canada experimented with Mincome, a basic guaranteed income, in the 1970s. In the town of Dauphin, Manitoba, labor only decreased by 13%, much less than expected" [1]. There are plenty of others. I expect a targeted need use of scarce resources (tax money) is a much better use for helping those who need…
"shows what happens when people get money for free - prices rise to absorb it"
A - so prices of $40,000 cars have increased becauae people got $2000 or whatever for free? What is that as percentage of wages, 0.5%
How about this massive supply chain and manufacturing disruption, could that somehow be responsible?
B - the wealthy and corporations were getting money for free for 20 years, it's called quanittative easing, and it caused massive inflation of asset prices
> "pain Y for product Z, this does not change if you rescale the meaning of money."
Usually economic theories talk about productivity, resources and velocity of money. This stuff about pain sounds like it came out of a sadistic religious cult.
Re: Basic income would not reduce people’s willingness to work
#133Multiple studies of where basic income was tried in the real world found it to reduce work. For example, "Manitoba, Canada experimented with Mincome, a basic guaranteed income, in the 1970s. In the town of Dauphin, Manitoba, labor only decreased by 13%, much less than expected" [1]. There are plenty of others. I expect a targeted need use of scarce resources (tax money) is a much better use for helping those who need…
> Multiple studies of where basic income was tried in the real world found it to reduce work. Isn't that a good outcome? Humans get more leisure time.
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Re: Basic income would not reduce people’s willingness to work
#134Earlier quoted context omitted.
Which is exactly what will happen. The pay for those jobs will increase, until such a point where it becomes cheaper/easier to just not have the job in the first place. I don't honestly know why whether or not people will work even factors into one's support for UBI. Some people will keep working, some people won't. Nobody will starve so that seems like something in the "pro" column at least.
Those who work and thereby pay for the UBI may feel that freeriding is actually unjust, and not the hallmark of a glorious new post-scarcity society?
When did hard work (or any work for that matter) to move up the skills/pay ladder become obsolete?
Re: Basic income would not reduce people’s willingness to work
#135Would it really be so bad if some people stopped working altogether? One of the proposed justifications for UBI is that automation creates wealth that could (or in some arguments, should) go to everyone rather than the ultra wealthy. That automation is taking up a larger and larger slice of the workforce, reducing the need for people to work. Many people will choose to do work that gives them meaning. Some people wil…
Fewer people working reduces the size of the pie, making ourselves poorer. So yes. I would say it's a bad thing if we tax society in order to pay able bodied people not to be productive.
Re: Basic income would not reduce people’s willingness to work
#136UBI is a tax cut for all. Which is why it will never happen.
No it isn't. A real tax cut wouldn't affect people who don't pay taxes.
Re: Basic income would not reduce people’s willingness to work
#137Earlier quoted context omitted.
So, what you're basically saying is that your spouse had a job that was a net negative for her: compensation for the abuse was not sufficiently priced into her pay grade. To me, your argument says that UBI will cause a re-evaluation of the income market, where undesirable jobs will have to be priced higher so that employers still can find the employees they need (and the services will have to be priced accordingly).…
Or those jobs will be eliminated altogether. Need to speak to a live human to solve some issue? Bad luck, here is our AI chatbot programmed for six common situations and wishing you a good day.
this has already happened in the food service industry. McDonalds used to hire a lot of teenagers; for many it was their first job. When minimum wage went up sufficiently high enough they replaced human labour with self-serve kiosks and reduced staff to a single register and kitchen staff. Tim Hortons switched to centralized bakeries and terminated all store-level bakers.
I'm not arguing either side of this, just that there are very real impacts. It's not a situation where every entry-level job is going to be floated by a rising tide, some people will drown.
Re: Basic income would not reduce people’s willingness to work
#138I may be misguided on this, but I don't believe a critique of UBI is the reduction in an individuals willingness to work, but rather the act of working. Individuals who don't want to work but do so as an understanding of a means to provide for themselves still have an unwillingness to work that wouldn't change if provided UBI, but their likelihood of quitting their job and not filling that time with a productive replacement is what is being questioned by opponents.
Re: Basic income would not reduce people’s willingness to work
#139A link to the actual research paper would be helpful. In this experiment, what amount was given to the treatment group that received basic income? How often? How does that amount compare to the cost of living in their city? > ‘It’s sometimes said that people will sit around doing nothing if you give them free money.’ I’m not an academic, so take this with a grain of salt. If my job requires menial labor or involves g…
My guess is that inflation would go through the roof resetting it back where the UBI wouldn't be enough to sustain basic life. Increasing UBI would further lead to runaway inflation. We literally just did this with COVID checks. I would vote for the complete opposite of basic income - invest heavily in education, trade schools, colleges and free access to tools for learning, apprenticeships, etc. Give tools to people…
Inflation would rise if UBI is paid with newly printed money and deficit (e.g. covid checks). If it's paid with taxes, nothing should change in terms of inflation. Surely, prices close to the consumption should rise, and price of capital goods should fall, but overall it stay the same.
Re: Basic income would not reduce people’s willingness to work
#140Earlier quoted context omitted.
Meaningless. It's not meaningless. It's not enough to prove that basic income will have a long term positive impact, but it is enough to show further experimentation on a larger, more long term scale is worthwhile. It's decidedly unreasonable, not to mention unscientific, to dismiss something because you don't like it.
We've done that experiment. The results are self-evident. This isn't suggestive, valid science. It's the equivalent of setting up a "scientific" contraption that purports to be a perpetual motion machine. You can create a pretty convincing fake perpetual motion machine, but because we have a broader theory of mechanics, we know perpetual motion is impossible, that the purported machine must be cheating somehow (even…
> We've done that experiment. The results are self-evident.
Do you mean the Alaska Permanent Fund, or something else?