[deleted]
Basic income would not reduce people’s willingness to work
91–100 of 786 posts
Re: Basic income would not reduce people’s willingness to work
#92Earlier quoted context omitted.
The more money you have - the less value a marginal dollar has. I think there would be a massive pressure to raise minimum wage. Why would you work for $7.50 an hour and pay $1 in taxes - spending the majority of your day to make ~$50 - that doesn't buy much - and you don't have much time to spend it anyway? When your options are either do that or be homeless and hungry - most people opt for work. But when you have o…
UBI might cover your food and rent, but it won't cover much past that. So if you want some beer money or a new videogame or whatever, you'll need to work. And since after UBI every dollar after taxes goes to luxuries, a low income provides a lot more luxuries than it does before UBI, so it's actually a lot more appealing to work -- you see the benefits directly.
What if the landlord and food companies just raise the prices now that they know people have at least X dollars a month to spend on rent and food.
Then people start advocating for universal housing and universal food.
Re: Basic income would not reduce people’s willingness to work
#93Of course it would. Look what a few "stimulus checks" did.
Re: Basic income would not reduce people’s willingness to work
#94Earlier quoted context omitted.
> there are plenty of jobs where you absolutely will quit And so what if people refuse to do shitty jobs? Perhaps we as society can do without those jobs. And if we can't, we should value them more
Which is exactly what will happen. The pay for those jobs will increase, until such a point where it becomes cheaper/easier to just not have the job in the first place. I don't honestly know why whether or not people will work even factors into one's support for UBI. Some people will keep working, some people won't. Nobody will starve so that seems like something in the "pro" column at least.
There's a clear difference between "some people won't work" and "some jobs won't be able to hire people." Just to be clear.
Re: Basic income would not reduce people’s willingness to work
#95A link to the actual research paper would be helpful. In this experiment, what amount was given to the treatment group that received basic income? How often? How does that amount compare to the cost of living in their city? > ‘It’s sometimes said that people will sit around doing nothing if you give them free money.’ I’m not an academic, so take this with a grain of salt. If my job requires menial labor or involves g…
So, what you're basically saying is that your spouse had a job that was a net negative for her: compensation for the abuse was not sufficiently priced into her pay grade. To me, your argument says that UBI will cause a re-evaluation of the income market, where undesirable jobs will have to be priced higher so that employers still can find the employees they need (and the services will have to be priced accordingly).…
Or those jobs will be eliminated altogether. Need to speak to a live human to solve some issue? Bad luck, here is our AI chatbot programmed for six common situations and wishing you a good day.
Re: Basic income would not reduce people’s willingness to work
#96The problem I have with the UBI is that you absolutely have to nail it on the first try in order for it to succeed. A great example is the housing market (in the US but also applies to a lot of European countries).
Regardless of UBI there will always be locations that will be more popular than others. I'm not saying everyone wants to live in San Francisco or Manhattan but I don't think supply will always exceed demand.
Assuming this there will be regions where demand for housing exceeds supply. So naturally the price of rent will go up. In some places that means you will have to find a job in order to be able to pay rent. At this point people are again subject to the current patterns of exploitation.
Sure if you can't make rent in one of the coastal cities you can always move inland and have a nicer life but even leaving money issues aside there are so many factors why people are not willing or even unable to move (proximity to family and friends is a big deal).
All that is to say, before you can even think of a UBI you will have to first solve the housing crisis because at best UBI will mitigate it. And this is just one example (cough health care).
Re: Basic income would not reduce people’s willingness to work
#97The very first sentence says this work was fudned by "FNV union"but I don't know what that means; the closest I could get was a Dutch trade union?
The fact that they don't define this (apparently) biased conflict, nor link to the actual study makes me immediately question the impartiality of any research.
We also just ran a real world experiment where many of the jobs in question here where impacted by covid and individuals got a flat-rate government cheque, and they DID stay home rather than go back to work the same job once restrictions where removed, so I question any outcomes from a set of behavioural studies that discounts the suppression on low-paying positions.
Re: Basic income would not reduce people’s willingness to work
#98A link to the actual research paper would be helpful. In this experiment, what amount was given to the treatment group that received basic income? How often? How does that amount compare to the cost of living in their city? > ‘It’s sometimes said that people will sit around doing nothing if you give them free money.’ I’m not an academic, so take this with a grain of salt. If my job requires menial labor or involves g…
So, this is anecdotal of course, but my high school was a terrible experience and university was incredible. Why? I think it was because the people who didn't want to be there didn't have to be. That's one benefit of UBI.
As for the jobs people won't do, those jobs will be higher valued and eventually, when the price is right, people will do them.
The angry people who don't want to work, who cheat the system won't have to (some still will, of course, but since everyone gets the same amount no matter what, there's less incentive and less frustration built into the system).
Finally, people who don't have the means to take risks will suddenly be able to. We will unlock their potential and the future will benefit as a result.
I just think it's a great idea all around.
Re: Basic income would not reduce people’s willingness to work
#99UBI is a tax cut for all.
Which is why it will never happen.
Re: Basic income would not reduce people’s willingness to work
#100Multiple studies of where basic income was tried in the real world found it to reduce work. For example, "Manitoba, Canada experimented with Mincome, a basic guaranteed income, in the 1970s. In the town of Dauphin, Manitoba, labor only decreased by 13%, much less than expected" [1]. There are plenty of others. I expect a targeted need use of scarce resources (tax money) is a much better use for helping those who need…
> I expect a targeted need use of scarce resources (tax money) is a much better use for helping those who need it
That might be true but it also might not be true. If you add a bunch of rules to the program it can increase the administrative cost a lot and leave you with less money to distribute. I'm not sure if it's true, but when I was a kid I heard that Canada's baby bonus (Canada Child Benefit) was made universal because of this.