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Francis Fukuyama – Against Identity Politics

amc.sas.upenn.edu

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Re: Francis Fukuyama – Against Identity Politics

#61

Post by AzzieElbab »

krapp wrote: post #55
FooBarBizBazz wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's really not what it says. The essay is very explicit about calling Trumpism a form of white identity politics. (That's why the title is terrible: It dissuades anyone left of Joe Biden from reading.)

Trumpism is white identity politics. That Trump's base is rural white voters who feel alienated and disenfranchised by the loss of white demographic majority and the encroachment of multiculturalism into their communities is a thesis they themselves have put forth. This isn't even controversial, the relationship between Trumpist populism and the alt-right/white supremacist communities has been thoroughly discussed an…

- “ Trumpism is white identity politics” - What happens if you replace the word “white” with say non-college educated working people?

Re: Francis Fukuyama – Against Identity Politics

#62

Post by roenxi »

was8309 wrote: post #47
uejfiweun wrote: post #27

I hate identity politics as much as the next guy, but I think a lot of Fukuyama's takes here are pretty bad. He repeatedly paints massive groups with a large and indiscriminate brush. For instance: "The right seeks to cut off immigration altogether and would like to send immigrants back to their countries of origin." Uh, what? The United States is a nation of immigrants and we all know it. I don't think anyone wants…

per 'defund the police' being extreme, here's a story. living near Pitt in 1981. iiuc, Reagan defunding forced the local psych hospital to empty out. So now we had a bunch of patients with psychiatric disabilities living homeless in the neighborhood, and my understanding is that they needed to stay close by the hospital in order to get daily meds. Of course this resulted in more police involvement, and though I don't…

> So my understanding of 'defund the police' is to reverse what happened in that and many similar situations...

Most comments explaining "defund the police" seem to settle on a different meaning, because I've seen one or two around and this one is new to me.

It is best to take political slogans literally. When a large group of people gets together and starts chanting something, then votes someone in who promises to execute the chant there is always a pretty good chance that the slogan will get implemented literally.

Eg, I'm pretty sure that there were some half-hearted arguments that "build a wall" was metaphorical. It turned out to involve a literal wall.

Re: Francis Fukuyama – Against Identity Politics

#63

Post by N1H1L »

AzzieElbab wrote: post #61
krapp wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trumpism is white identity politics. That Trump's base is rural white voters who feel alienated and disenfranchised by the loss of white demographic majority and the encroachment of multiculturalism into their communities is a thesis they themselves have put forth. This isn't even controversial, the relationship between Trumpist populism and the alt-right/white supremacist communities has been thoroughly discussed an…

- “ Trumpism is white identity politics” - What happens if you replace the word “white” with say non-college educated working people?

> non-college educated working people?

Lots of Hispanics and Blacks in that group, who surprisingly aren't that keen on Trump

Re: Francis Fukuyama – Against Identity Politics

#65

Post by N1H1L »

beepbooptheory wrote: post #21
netcan wrote: post #7

Quoted post unavailable.

What, in your mind, was 20th century politics defined by? Edit: like I get the economism here feels reductive to you, I think, but I just think it would at least be equally absurd to say they were predominantly defined by identity issues. As is shown in the essay, our concept of identity is intractable from globalism and modernity. So I'm just not sure what the obvious issue is here. If we admit that it is nuanced, t…

The US is not the world. US politics were deeply identitarian too first of all, Jim Crow Laws, Civil Rights Act and desegregation were explicitly identity based and not economic.

And then as other posters have mentioned - hundreds of national independence movements - almost all based on a national identity

Re: Francis Fukuyama – Against Identity Politics

#66

Post by N1H1L »

rvense wrote: post #42
beepbooptheory wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not clear on your complaints here, maybe you are reading it wrong? To pick up on one thing: do you feel that the political right has, rather, sustained a consistent nationalistic bent for the past century? You dont feel like it has changed recently, and rather, perhaps, believing it has changed is misguided?

Nationalism is a defining characteristic of political conservatism.

It is in fact the first feature - conservatism is almost always focused on preventing changes to a current identity from multiculturalism and cosmopolitan forces

Re: Francis Fukuyama – Against Identity Politics

#67

Post by N1H1L »

IAmEveryone wrote: post #8

I have no earthly idea how "identity politics" is related to the demise of the arab spring. In as far as it may relate to the rise of authoritarianism in Eastern Europe (Poland and Hungary), it is by being easy foil for Victor Orban and his ilk (cf. "LGBTQ-free zones"). Even if one were to believe these neo-fascists wouldn't just find some other scapegoat, I don't see how it would morally justify a return to 1950s so…

> No, it has nothing to do with economics. It included a doctor making $ 650,000 p. a. as well as a group that traveled to DC on a private jet.

People forget this a lot - and try to ignore it consistently.

Re: Francis Fukuyama – Against Identity Politics

#68

Post by [deleted] »

uejfiweun wrote: post #27

I hate identity politics as much as the next guy, but I think a lot of Fukuyama's takes here are pretty bad. He repeatedly paints massive groups with a large and indiscriminate brush. For instance: "The right seeks to cut off immigration altogether and would like to send immigrants back to their countries of origin." Uh, what? The United States is a nation of immigrants and we all know it. I don't think anyone wants…

[deleted]

Re: Francis Fukuyama – Against Identity Politics

#69

Post by nerdponx »

roenxi wrote: post #62
was8309 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

per 'defund the police' being extreme, here's a story. living near Pitt in 1981. iiuc, Reagan defunding forced the local psych hospital to empty out. So now we had a bunch of patients with psychiatric disabilities living homeless in the neighborhood, and my understanding is that they needed to stay close by the hospital in order to get daily meds. Of course this resulted in more police involvement, and though I don't…

> So my understanding of 'defund the police' is to reverse what happened in that and many similar situations... Most comments explaining "defund the police" seem to settle on a different meaning, because I've seen one or two around and this one is new to me. It is best to take political slogans literally. When a large group of people gets together and starts chanting something, then votes someone in who promises to e…

It seems pretty literal to me. Fund police less, fund other things more instead.

Re: Francis Fukuyama – Against Identity Politics

#70

Post by huetius »

borepop wrote: post #3

Also Francis Fukuyama: history ended in 1992.

To be fair, by “end” he meant “telos,” or “ideal,” following Hegel. He did not mean that there would be no more history. Of course, his thesis is still wrong.

EDIT: the original essay also had a question mark at the end of the title.

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