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Francis Fukuyama – Against Identity Politics

amc.sas.upenn.edu

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Re: Francis Fukuyama – Against Identity Politics

#51

Post by FooBarBizBazz »

drewcoo wrote: post #48
uejfiweun wrote: post #27

I hate identity politics as much as the next guy, but I think a lot of Fukuyama's takes here are pretty bad. He repeatedly paints massive groups with a large and indiscriminate brush. For instance: "The right seeks to cut off immigration altogether and would like to send immigrants back to their countries of origin." Uh, what? The United States is a nation of immigrants and we all know it. I don't think anyone wants…

Fukuyama isn't worried about facts. Factually, Obama and now Biden have deported far more people than Trump or Bush. Obama was even known as "the deporter in chief." https://www.aclu.org/blog/immigrants-rights/state-and-local-...

Here is a quote from Fukuyama's essay about exactly that:

> Doing little to prevent millions of people from entering and staying in the country unlawfully and then engaging in sporadic and seemingly arbitrary bouts of deportation—which were a feature of Obama’s time in office—is hardly a sustainable long-term policy.

Re: Francis Fukuyama – Against Identity Politics

#52

Post by FooBarBizBazz »

jvsg_ wrote: post #34
Gimpei wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ego rents are very much a part of modern economic theory. As are any range of cognitive biases (see behavioral economics), institutional frictions, spatial constraints, and on and on. It's a wide tent. Some say too wide.

Could you explain ego rent? Google didn't give me an answer (it sucks these days tbh).

Like, you make no money but get to feel important. See the "CEOs" at startup conferences.

Re: Francis Fukuyama – Against Identity Politics

#54

Post by FooBarBizBazz »

rvense wrote: post #11
netcan wrote: post #7

Quoted post unavailable.

He gives a summary of 20th century politics that doesn't include fascism, and makes the Cold War sound like it was a battle between "small government" and "worker's rights". He says outright that nationalism on the political right is a "redefinition". This is so bizarre I can only assume I'm reading it wrong.

I agree; he ignores all the national liberation movements, which were typically nationalistic and linked to an ethnic identity (even when nominally "Communist"). More charitably he's trying to talk about the transition from the Old Left to the New Left.

Re: Francis Fukuyama – Against Identity Politics

#55

Post by krapp »

FooBarBizBazz wrote: post #53
moomin wrote: post #39

Quoted post unavailable.

That's really not what it says. The essay is very explicit about calling Trumpism a form of white identity politics. (That's why the title is terrible: It dissuades anyone left of Joe Biden from reading.)

Trumpism is white identity politics. That Trump's base is rural white voters who feel alienated and disenfranchised by the loss of white demographic majority and the encroachment of multiculturalism into their communities is a thesis they themselves have put forth. This isn't even controversial, the relationship between Trumpist populism and the alt-right/white supremacist communities has been thoroughly discussed and well documented at this point.

Note that the presence of non-white Trump supporters doesn't invalidate the premise. No one is claiming Trumpism is only and exclusively white identity politics, but that is certainly a core motivating factor behind the movement.

Re: Francis Fukuyama – Against Identity Politics

#56

Post by fumanchux »

was8309 wrote: post #47
uejfiweun wrote: post #27

I hate identity politics as much as the next guy, but I think a lot of Fukuyama's takes here are pretty bad. He repeatedly paints massive groups with a large and indiscriminate brush. For instance: "The right seeks to cut off immigration altogether and would like to send immigrants back to their countries of origin." Uh, what? The United States is a nation of immigrants and we all know it. I don't think anyone wants…

per 'defund the police' being extreme, here's a story. living near Pitt in 1981. iiuc, Reagan defunding forced the local psych hospital to empty out. So now we had a bunch of patients with psychiatric disabilities living homeless in the neighborhood, and my understanding is that they needed to stay close by the hospital in order to get daily meds. Of course this resulted in more police involvement, and though I don't…

The “Reagan defunded psychiatric hospitals” trope needs to die. The wards started emptying in the 60s with the granting or rights to the patients. We don’t want to go back to “one flew over the cuckoo’s nest”. Then more with the invention of meds that controlled the worst symptoms. Psychiatric hospitalization rates dropped 65% from 1970-1979. Those hospitals were funded by states not the feds, so there was a much larger trend going on.

[1] https://www.nasmhpd.org/sites/default/files/TACPaper.2.Psych...

Re: Francis Fukuyama – Against Identity Politics

#57

Post by [deleted] »

was8309 wrote: post #47
uejfiweun wrote: post #27

I hate identity politics as much as the next guy, but I think a lot of Fukuyama's takes here are pretty bad. He repeatedly paints massive groups with a large and indiscriminate brush. For instance: "The right seeks to cut off immigration altogether and would like to send immigrants back to their countries of origin." Uh, what? The United States is a nation of immigrants and we all know it. I don't think anyone wants…

per 'defund the police' being extreme, here's a story. living near Pitt in 1981. iiuc, Reagan defunding forced the local psych hospital to empty out. So now we had a bunch of patients with psychiatric disabilities living homeless in the neighborhood, and my understanding is that they needed to stay close by the hospital in order to get daily meds. Of course this resulted in more police involvement, and though I don't…

[deleted]

Re: Francis Fukuyama – Against Identity Politics

#58

Post by dlbucci »

fumanchux wrote: post #56
was8309 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

per 'defund the police' being extreme, here's a story. living near Pitt in 1981. iiuc, Reagan defunding forced the local psych hospital to empty out. So now we had a bunch of patients with psychiatric disabilities living homeless in the neighborhood, and my understanding is that they needed to stay close by the hospital in order to get daily meds. Of course this resulted in more police involvement, and though I don't…

The “Reagan defunded psychiatric hospitals” trope needs to die. The wards started emptying in the 60s with the granting or rights to the patients. We don’t want to go back to “one flew over the cuckoo’s nest”. Then more with the invention of meds that controlled the worst symptoms. Psychiatric hospitalization rates dropped 65% from 1970-1979. Those hospitals were funded by states not the feds, so there was a much lar…

Both things can be true. Reagan did repeal this, for example: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_Health_Systems_Act_of...

Re: Francis Fukuyama – Against Identity Politics

#59

Post by rvense »

His point at the end about the impossibility of the word "un-Danish" is at least thirty years out of date, if not 80. "Udansk" is fairly frequently used, across the political spectrum, usually denoting some variation of intolerance, unwillingness to compromise, and narrowmindedness which are implied almost universally to be antithetical to Danishness.

Even on the right, the phrases "Danish culture" and "Danish values" are used much more than any reference to blood or ethnicity. It is very much a fringe view to suggest that people are not able to become like us and assimilate (though a lot less fringe to claim that many foreigners, especially muslims, don't want to do so.)

Re: Francis Fukuyama – Against Identity Politics

#60

Post by AzzieElbab »

moomin wrote: post #39

Quoted post unavailable.

From my point of view identity politics is just standard issue divide and conquer Marxism. This ideology is meant to split people and nations into oppressor and oppressed categories with the sole purpose to facilitate utopian revolution(s).
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