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Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

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Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

#231

Post by ls15 »

DonHopkins wrote: post #225
ls15 wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That still has an elevated risk. And he already had covid. What is the justification for asking him to take the risk again?

He also runs the risk of being stabbed on the court during a match by a deranged fan of his opponent like Monica Seles was, or taking an errant serve directly in the groin then getting knocked backwards and striking his head on the hardcourt surface like Dick Wertheim did. So what? Tennis is a dangerous sport. Get used to it. https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/tennis-star-moni... https://en.wikipedia.org/wik…

What would you think about mandatory tennis then?

Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

#232

Post by kzrdude »

vore wrote: post #112
kzrdude wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, I didn't know that. But still, in what way is Victoria responsible for immigration? Do they normally decide anything about it? It seems like states can nominate (in other immigration cases) but it's subject to central rules too https://www.migration.sa.gov.au/nomination-process/about-sta...

I'm not sure of the extent of the Victorian government's involvement in this debacle, but it is clear they had expressly gave him their assurance (multiple sources mention both Tennis Australia and the Victorian government gave him their approval, even if the visa was ultimately wrong) and were aware of the circumstances (would be surprising if they weren't attentive to the world's #1 tennis player coming to one of t…

I think from his side it's a weak argument to follow but maybe it makes sense in a common law context - whatever instance has given him a go-ahead, he's going to use that and say he had some kind of assurance. It's just not from the right department or level at all, but he can try. He needs a pseudo good faith argument for "I thought I could go", and that's what he's trying to do - that's his foot in the door, then the courts decide.

Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

#233

Post by dmarcos »

scarab92 wrote: post #192
wombatmobile wrote: post #5

David Crowe writes in The Age https://archive.ph/Ohx6d The political cost of letting Djokovic stay was too high for Morrison Australians have been barred from visiting a dying parent in hospital, blocked from seeing a new grandchild and forbidden from having a wedding. Should they accept that a tennis star gets the leeway they were denied? Angering those Australians would have been a huge danger for Morrison when he…

Politics aside, the entry requirements for Australia explicitly require full vaccination with a WHO approved vaccine or a valid medical exemption. Prior infection is explicitly not sufficient for an exemption. Djokovic did not meet the entry requirements, he knew he did not meet the entry rquirents, but he boarded the plane anyway. The earlier visa cancellation was overturned on procedural grounds only. This minister…

He had followed all the rules apparently. He had been granted an exception reviewed by two independent panels as required by Australian authorities. Decision backed by the Victorian Dep. of Health. The process is blind so supposedly the authorities didn’t know it was Djokovic behind the application. He boarded the plane with the papers in order:

https://www.tennis365.com/australian-open/tennis-australia-n...

Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

#234

Post by MrRiddle »

Arisaka1 wrote: post #97
BrissyCoder wrote: post #19

9/10 Australians think this guy is a grade-A dickhead. It would have been politically unpalatable for him to have been allowed to stay.

I'm a Serbian who used to be a fan of Djokovic in spite of the fact that I'm not big into tennis, but after losing a family member to Covid seeing him deciding to die on the anti-vax hill broke my heart and I don't want anything to do with him.

I’m Serbian as well and I haven’t heard him say any anti-vaxx statement. It’s more of a result of witch-hunt than him actually being anti-vaxx.

Another thing is, why he needs a vaccine? He had Covid, giving him long lasting immunity. Vaccines stop the spread at the same level or even less than Covid immunity, so what’s the point? Just politics, there’s absolutely no reason for someone like him to risk myocarditis, he is immune enough.

Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

#235

Post by ls15 »

dale_glass wrote: post #223
ls15 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will not be known as the tournament where the best player wins, but as the tournament where the best vaccinated player wins, because the best player was not allowed to participate. It's not a top league tournament anymore, when you don't have all the best player, but only those that are allowed by government criteria.

Welcome to international travel! Countries are sovereign entities and decide who gets through the borders. For any international gathering, there's going to be people who have a hard time making it through, or are unable. I was once invited by a company to an US based developer meeting, and couldn't make it because the company didn't realize I needed a visa, and it's absolutely impossible to get one in two weeks barr…

I think that an international sports event in a country that is too picky has no chance to stay relevant, especially if that means that it filters out some of the best athletes.

Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

#236

Post by tomhoward »

roca wrote: post #210
grujicd wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My guess is he expected non-medical sponsored visa as a person of special interest to Australia. And as a 9 time winner, he had every right to at least hope for such case. If political circumstances in Australia were different, and/or if he was less vocal, he just might got it.

Has Australia granted any such exemptions to anyone else?

No. It wouldn't fly in the present climate.

It's not even just about the opinions of the Australian population. Other tennis players have a right to ask why he can get around the rules that even other top players (Nadal, Federer etc) can't avoid. The ATP itself came out saying that players should all be vaccinated, and the only complaint it raised on behalf of Djokovic was over the circumstances that led to him ending up in immigration detention. But with the new details about his activities that have emerged since then, I'd be surprised if they are very combative on his behalf now, given they represent all the male players, not just him.

Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

#237

Post by joshschreuder »

akomtu wrote: post #148
forty wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are afraid that Australian people who made the effort of being locked down and getting vaccinated would be unhappy that some Tennis star would not be required to do the same effort. That's perfectly understandable IMO.

What are those unhappy people going to do? Write a few angry comments in twitter and get their accounts banned? The true reason must be something else.

As mentioned elsewhere we have an impending federal election. This is almost certainly point scoring given how the vast, vast majority of people hate Djokovic and his actions right now.

Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

#238

Post by celeduc »

guilhas wrote: post #190
celeduc wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"rest of the world" being you , apparently.

I would even say just the world, including Australians. They are probably more angry with their gov than Djokovic Is Pandemic Australia Still a Liberal Democracy? https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/09/pandemic-a... Opinion | Covid Zero Is No Longer Working for Australia https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/08/opinion/australia-covid-d... Djokovic's rare victory against Australia's COVID-19 tyranny https://www.…

Cool, I must be writing from Uranus then.

Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

#239

Post by nec4b »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #226
stef25 wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But vaccinated people also get ill and spread covid, and with omicron it's pretty much guaranteed that everyone, vaccinated or not, will get in contact with covid Well yes, vaccines don't stop the spread but it will reduce it (definitely with Delta, maybe less so with Omicron). And then you have other problems like mutations happening more among non vaccinated. And even with omicron, a vaccine will prevent serious…

> vaccines don't stop the spread but it will reduce it (definitely with Delta, maybe less so with Omicron). Not with omicron, atleast not really. > And even with omicron, a vaccine will prevent serious illness. So, it's like smoking, the vaccinated get lesser chance of serious illness, and the unvaccinated have themselves to blame. > Yes, I definitely think you could make a case for that. If people could reduce their…

The limitations are there, so that hospitals don't get flooded with people. Without the limitations the healthcare system would collapse. If that were to happen, doctors would have to decide whether to help you because you had an accident or to treat somebody else with covid or somebody else with some other emergency.

Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

#240

Post by ls15 »

alkonaut wrote: post #205
ls15 wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the disk is first of all extremely low in all groups Not by official WHO definitions. 101 in a million is equivalent to 1.01/10,000. With 1/10,000 it falls into the bracket for the definition of "rare", not "very rare" or "extremely rare". I wish the media would use these official definitions. https://www.who.int/medicines/areas/quality_safety/safety_ef...

Fair enough, I didn't know there was a formal definition of "extremely rare" vs. "rare". But it's "about equally rare" between vax and infection for the healthiest group, and rare for all groups. This is why I think it's so weird to avoid the vaccine due to that risk. It's not like people taking the vax are spinning a roulette wheel with 1/10000 risk of complication, and if they reject the vaccine they don't need to…

The roulette wheel is being spun with every injection. I think this aspect is underrepresented too. Having three jabs means having a 1/n chance three times, with varying n each time. We are not only talking about vaccine mandates, but also booster mandates. The basis for these is even thinner, because especially since Omicron, the benefit/risk ratio is even worse. The risk has not changed, while the benefits just visibly decreased.

"The risk is about the same" is not even a good ratio to begin with, and it also does not match with what has been communicated to the public over and over - that the risks would be astronomically small, compared to the benefits. With the ratio that is currently known, the vaccines would have had a harder time to get approved. I don't think that mass vaccination mandates can be upheld as soon as the public becomes aware of the actual ratios.

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