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Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

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Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

#201
post #159
post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not understand the "what more could this man have done?" line. Trying very hard to meet the rules for entering a country, but not actually being able to meet them, does not normally give people the right to enter that country.

I think the sticking point here was that he was given approval by the Victorian government which failed to communicate with the federal government. Arguably you can frame it as his fault that he did not get an assurance from the federal government, but a reasonable person would not expect the state government to have failed to secure the required assurances from the federal government.

Failure to understand the system is also not usually grounds for being allowed to enter a country.

Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

#203
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Draconian ones

Literally 1984 or 1989 or something like that

Don't you hate it when you're an evil big-brother dictator giving a frenzied political rally, with your menacing visage projected onto a gigantic monochromatic screen towering above the audience, in a dystopian, industrial setting in blue and grayish tones, with a line of people of ambiguous gender marching in unison through a long tunnel monitored by a string of television screens, and a full-color nameless running female competitive track and field athlete wearing an athletic "uniform" with red athletic shorts, running shoes, a white tank top with a cubist picture of Apple's Macintosh computer, a white sweat band on her left wrist, and a red one on her right, runs in carrying a large brass-headed sledgehammer, striding past rows of marching minions evoking the opening scenes of Metropolis, while you continue to speak inspiringly to your raptured audience about the first glorious anniversary of the Information Purification Directives, as your four police officers, presumably agents of the Thought Police, wearing black uniforms, protected by riot gear, helmets with visors covering their faces, and armed with large night sticks, chase her towards the large screen with the glaring image of your Big Brother-like facade as you give your speech, and then close to the screen, she hurls her hammer towards it, right at the moment you announce, “we shall prevail!”, gob-smacking you right in the nose, and in a flurry of light and smoke, the screen with your face is destroyed, leaving the audience in shock?

Yeaaaaah, I HATE it when that happens to me.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_(advertisement)

Aired January 22, 1984:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtvjbmoDx-I

Aired November 10, 1984:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Im1aXFYoedg

...Djokovic's self-inflicted butt-hurt and heart-break must be unbearable.

Very painful. Yeah, very painful.

Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

#204
post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He still faces the same risk in the future. He surely has some immunity now, no?

Yes but that immunity wanes regardless of whether it's natural or from vaccine.

And so does the severity of the disease, look at omicron. The benefits of the vaccine over a natural infection get weaker by the day, especially because vaccine efficacy is not great anymore. Particularly too weak for justifying mandates, in my opinion.

Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

#205
post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the past when your risk of getting the disease was perhaps smaller maybe you could start doing this math. Now that it's clear that everyone will get the disease (multiple times) it's not so easy. Not least because even if you are a "make under 40", you eventually won't be. Besides there are numerous other side effects from the virus than myocarditis. Focusinig on this particular one and ignoring all the others is…

> the disk is first of all extremely low in all groups Not by official WHO definitions. 101 in a million is equivalent to 1.01/10,000. With 1/10,000 it falls into the bracket for the definition of "rare", not "very rare" or "extremely rare". I wish the media would use these official definitions. https://www.who.int/medicines/areas/quality_safety/safety_ef...

Fair enough, I didn't know there was a formal definition of "extremely rare" vs. "rare". But it's "about equally rare" between vax and infection for the healthiest group, and rare for all groups.

This is why I think it's so weird to avoid the vaccine due to that risk. It's not like people taking the vax are spinning a roulette wheel with 1/10000 risk of complication, and if they reject the vaccine they don't need to spin it. If that was the case, then I'd understand it.

Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

#206
post #119
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He did however not address the issue that his positive PCR test was probably falsified. https://www.theage.com.au/politics/federal/does-not-match-dj...

I wonder how his supporters deal with the fact that, if his test wasn't falsified, then Djokovic's plan for getting into Australia was apparently to catch COVID almost exactly when he claims he did. I.e., at some point Tennis Australia told Djokovic's team that he would/might get an exemption if he'd had COVID recently. In early December Djokovic hadn't had COVID recently and didn't qualify for any kind of exemption.…

My guess is he expected non-medical sponsored visa as a person of special interest to Australia. And as a 9 time winner, he had every right to at least hope for such case. If political circumstances in Australia were different, and/or if he was less vocal, he just might got it.

Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

#207

Djokovic was never eligible to enter Australia. He lied about having a medical excuse to not be vaccinated. He used 'exemptions' from organisations other than the immigration authorities to muddy the waters. He was trying to blag it all along and got caught. He got lucky with a border guard making a mistake which ultimately allowed him entry, but doing anything but cancelling his visa would have been contrary to norm…

Victorian Government gave him exemption. And prior to Novak arriving, the PM said it was "up to the states". Then he changed his mind within 24hrs.

The Victorian government doesn't have the power to, they have no immigration powers, and the relevant Federal minister had actually written to Tennis Australia twice advising them that there was no basis for him to enter based on previously having caught covid.

Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

#208
post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean... you probably shouldn't ignore the thing that kills the most people, to deal with something that kills less people than that. And yes, we basically do the calculation (deaths vs convenience) all the time.. look at speed limits for cars, they're just a calculation of traffic deaths per year vs time losses due to lower speed limits.. a few deaths is ok, because everyone can get to work faster, but a lot of dea…

> I mean... you probably shouldn't ignore the thing that kills the most people, to deal with something that kills less people than that Smoking isn't ignored ... I don't think any illness is ignored in favor of any others. Doctors have been insisting people do not postpone medical procedures and checkups because they're worried about covid in hospitals (which has been happening, and causing more deaths). One of the m…

> Smoking isn't ignored ... I don't think any illness is ignored in favor of any others. Doctors have been insisting people do not postpone medical procedures and checkups because they're worried about covid in hospitals (which has been happening, and causing more deaths).

Doctors have been saying that, but then rescheduling procedures. Some have even been stopped for some time. Here in slovenia, they even caught doctors, giving their timecards to a security guard to check them in/out out of the government hospital (so they get covid benefits) while they worked in private practice, because their government-hospital procedures (whole programme) was stopped.

> I doubt that speed limits have anything to do with "time lost". The difference in covering 30Km at 150Km/h vs 120Km/h is 3 min, negligible. Wake up earlier :)

But if we lowered the speed limit to 10km/h, there'd be almost zero deaths. And yes, we have speed limits lowering the speed from 130km/h to 110km/h in many places, because it loweres the chance of accidents there, while an accident at that both of those speeds are pretty bad anyways.

> You're also endangering vaccinated people. The risk of serious illness is greatly reduced but you're not guaranteed not to die. A vaccine is like a seat belt (works super well but doesn't make you invincible).

But vaccinated people also get ill and spread covid, and with omicron it's pretty much guaranteed that everyone, vaccinated or not, will get in contact with covid. The vaccine is basically helping only the vaccinated person, and has pretty much no effect on the spread itself (which is pretty much logical at r0=10 or whatever it is for omicron).

> And it's not just 1 or 0. People die from covid and survivors can have long lasting afflictions from it. I think the statistic is for every person that dies, there's 5 that will be "marked" for life by covid. Not "long covid" or whatever, but life long problems with reduced lung capacity, problems with kidneys, heart etc - things they will suffer from in varying degrees for years to come, burdening the healthcare and social welfare system and the economy in general (global cost is already in the trillions of dollars).

Again... we'll all get it, and you either trust your immune system, and take the risk for yourself, or you trust the vaccine+immune system, and take a lower risk, or you well.. stay at home, because vaccines won't prevent the spread of a virus so contageous as the omicron variant.

> And it's still not ok to endanger those who aren't vaccinated because they can still end up in hospital, using up valuable resources. So if you want to have your covid parties that's fine if you sign a contract saying you'll receive no medical help whatsoever should you get infected. Anything else is morally wrong.

Should we expand this to smokers and obese people, and extreme sportists? I mean.. getting covid is a one time "mistake", getting morbidly obese is years and years of self abuse, same with cigarettes, those take many years to destroy your lungs.

> It's extremely tiring having to explain all this basic, obvious stuff to people. I'm sure if you thought it through you could figure it out for yourself.

It's also exremly tiring to take away peoples basic human rights in the name of a disease that (with vaccines) kills less people than the flu (and who cares if someone doesn't get vaccinated, it's their problem).

Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

#209
post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a fierce anti conspiracy person, but this covid situation is having me thinking. They say natural resistance is better or equal than from the vaccine, everyone apart from anti vaxxers like Djokovic has had a shot or two or three, there's no herd immunity or herd protection Can someone explain the math to me? Also people said the regular flu does not exist anymore, give or take, because everyone is wearing masks.…

> They say natural resistance is better or equal than from the vaccine Who are "they" and what exactly are "they" saying? I think there is a consensus that even if you had the disease, it's wise choice to get vaccinated. Protection from vaccination and recovery is better than protection from only one of them, as far as I understand it. > Can someone explain the math to me? What math? > Also people said the regular fl…

Can't speak for the whole world, but in Canada my experience is that they're not testing for the flu anymore. Only COVID. In years past if you went to the doctor during flu season they'd do a throat swab for flu. Now it's only for COVID.

I know lots of people who were sick but only tested for COVID. One of my friends was out of work for a month with a bacterial infection they missed for 2+ weeks because they only tested for COVID....

Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

#210
post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how his supporters deal with the fact that, if his test wasn't falsified, then Djokovic's plan for getting into Australia was apparently to catch COVID almost exactly when he claims he did. I.e., at some point Tennis Australia told Djokovic's team that he would/might get an exemption if he'd had COVID recently. In early December Djokovic hadn't had COVID recently and didn't qualify for any kind of exemption.…

My guess is he expected non-medical sponsored visa as a person of special interest to Australia. And as a 9 time winner, he had every right to at least hope for such case. If political circumstances in Australia were different, and/or if he was less vocal, he just might got it.

Has Australia granted any such exemptions to anyone else?
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