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Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

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Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

#221

Post by stef25 »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #208
stef25 wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I mean... you probably shouldn't ignore the thing that kills the most people, to deal with something that kills less people than that Smoking isn't ignored ... I don't think any illness is ignored in favor of any others. Doctors have been insisting people do not postpone medical procedures and checkups because they're worried about covid in hospitals (which has been happening, and causing more deaths). One of the m…

> Smoking isn't ignored ... I don't think any illness is ignored in favor of any others. Doctors have been insisting people do not postpone medical procedures and checkups because they're worried about covid in hospitals (which has been happening, and causing more deaths). Doctors have been saying that, but then rescheduling procedures. Some have even been stopped for some time. Here in slovenia, they even caught doc…

> But vaccinated people also get ill and spread covid, and with omicron it's pretty much guaranteed that everyone, vaccinated or not, will get in contact with covid

Well yes, vaccines don't stop the spread but it will reduce it (definitely with Delta, maybe less so with Omicron). And then you have other problems like mutations happening more among non vaccinated.

And even with omicron, a vaccine will prevent serious illness.

Even if it just makes a 1% difference, among the almost 8 billion people in the world that's still a huge number. So why not get vaccinated?

It seems to me people are either scared for irrational reasons or just want to be different and think they know it better than the medical establishment.

> Should we expand this to smokers and obese people

Yes, I definitely think you could make a case for that. If people could reduce their craving for McDonalds by receiving a yearly injection and they refuse then yeah, you'd be in the same situation. But things are more complicated, being related to addiction, socio economic status etc ...

> It's also exremly tiring to take away peoples basic human rights in the name of a disease that (with vaccines) kills less people than the flu (and who cares if someone doesn't get vaccinated, it's their problem).

Again, nobody is forced to be vaccinated and it's not just their problem if they don't. You may be refused entry to bars & restaurants but that's not a basic human right, afaik.

I'm done with this!

Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

#223

Post by dale_glass »

ls15 wrote: post #45
type0 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not dead yet and to fit the times I'd suggest renaming it to Australian Closed

It will not be known as the tournament where the best player wins, but as the tournament where the best vaccinated player wins, because the best player was not allowed to participate. It's not a top league tournament anymore, when you don't have all the best player, but only those that are allowed by government criteria.

Welcome to international travel! Countries are sovereign entities and decide who gets through the borders. For any international gathering, there's going to be people who have a hard time making it through, or are unable.

I was once invited by a company to an US based developer meeting, and couldn't make it because the company didn't realize I needed a visa, and it's absolutely impossible to get one in two weeks barring exceptional circumstances like the death of a family member.

Later when I visited the US it took about a couple months to get the visa in my passport.

Countries are picky about who they allow in, and require a bunch of paperwork to reassure them you're not going to cause trouble and are going to leave when you're done seeing sights.

Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

#224

Post by [deleted] »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #186
ljm wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the multiple 'X lives matter' references I think this response is probably more loaded than the question could ever have been. The thing with COVID is that it's a contagious and deadly disease. The thing with smoking, fizzy drinks and junk food is that they're not contagious and deadly diseases, they're lifestyle choices. You can't compare them like-for-like.

I'm not an american, and I don't really care about your internal issues. Our phrase is "vsako zivljenje steje", which is literally translated to "every life counts", but "matters" makes more sense in this context.

[deleted]

Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

#225

Post by DonHopkins »

ls15 wrote: post #174
fabian2k wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He can take Biontech/Pfizer and not Moderna (which is also the recommendation in some countries for younger people)

That still has an elevated risk. And he already had covid. What is the justification for asking him to take the risk again?

He also runs the risk of being stabbed on the court during a match by a deranged fan of his opponent like Monica Seles was, or taking an errant serve directly in the groin then getting knocked backwards and striking his head on the hardcourt surface like Dick Wertheim did. So what?

Tennis is a dangerous sport. Get used to it.

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/tennis-star-moni...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Wertheim

Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

#226

Post by ajsnigrutin »

stef25 wrote: post #221
ajsnigrutin wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Smoking isn't ignored ... I don't think any illness is ignored in favor of any others. Doctors have been insisting people do not postpone medical procedures and checkups because they're worried about covid in hospitals (which has been happening, and causing more deaths). Doctors have been saying that, but then rescheduling procedures. Some have even been stopped for some time. Here in slovenia, they even caught doc…

> But vaccinated people also get ill and spread covid, and with omicron it's pretty much guaranteed that everyone, vaccinated or not, will get in contact with covid Well yes, vaccines don't stop the spread but it will reduce it (definitely with Delta, maybe less so with Omicron). And then you have other problems like mutations happening more among non vaccinated. And even with omicron, a vaccine will prevent serious…

> vaccines don't stop the spread but it will reduce it (definitely with Delta, maybe less so with Omicron).

Not with omicron, atleast not really.

> And even with omicron, a vaccine will prevent serious illness.

So, it's like smoking, the vaccinated get lesser chance of serious illness, and the unvaccinated have themselves to blame.

> Yes, I definitely think you could make a case for that. If people could reduce their craving for McDonalds by receiving a yearly injection and they refuse then yeah, you'd be in the same situation. But things are more complicated, being related to addiction, socio economic status etc ...

I mean.. they could reduse mcdonalds by just not eating at mcdonalds.

> Again, nobody is forced to be vaccinated and it's not just their problem if they don't. You may be refused entry to bars & restaurants but that's not a basic human right, afaik.

But curfews (restriction of movement) is a basic human right, that was taken away from us. And again, if vaccines only help the vaccinated, why not let the unvaccinated ones into bars (or mcdonalds)?

Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

#227

Post by DonHopkins »

qwerty456127 wrote: post #164
sofixa wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sounds like communism. No cause can be considered greater than freedom. Are you a 10 year old American from the Cold War? What you're saying is so comprehensively stupid I'm not entirely certain you're a real human. No, that's not what communism is. If you want to know what it really is, go read "Das Kapital" and the "Communist Manifesto", you might learn a thing or two. As for freedom... it's subjective. Absolute…

> Are you a 10 year old American from the Cold War? No, I'm from a former communist country, we developed antibodies to "higher causes" rhetorics.

qwerty456127, have you ever seen a commie drink a glass of water?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J67wKhddWu4

War is too important to be left to the politicians.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1KvgtEnABY

Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

#228

Post by qwerty456127 »

sofixa wrote: post #171
qwerty456127 wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are you a 10 year old American from the Cold War? No, I'm from a former communist country, we developed antibodies to "higher causes" rhetorics.

I see, but it's hard not to see a pandemic as a legitimate emergency and "higher causes"-invoking situation. It's not just a leader inventing a paper foreign subversive enemy out to get us, it's actually a thing which isn't hard to see and comprehend for oneself. I don't think any country's experience under communism is in any way applicable to the current situation.

There can be legitimate higher causes and situations when such are painfully obvious like overcoming pandemics. Nevertheless politicians (let alone masses incompetent in relevant subjects) can never be trusted as actually pursuing such as their primary aim. Appealing to such to justify anything always is a huge red flag (pun intended).

Politicians apparently are driven by the game theory and will do/say anything they believe will help them maximize their own power and safety (elections already mentioned) rather than sustainable wellbeing of the people.

Masses are driven by even more chthonic energies like unconscious xenophobia and value the chance to unite by any attribute to attack anybody they can (especially those enjoying a benefit they don't or trying to achieve a benefit they enjoy) above everything and will use any excuse they are given.

Simply saying politicians have already made a too many of suspiciously inefficient (and logically obviously futile even before proven such) decisions to trust them competent and benevolent and the mob will believe and shout any nonsense you tell them as long as this justifies them carrying torches and pitchforks.

Imagine president Trump, seeing himself loosing the elections and actually facing a real prison sentence risk, would have said nuking China is going to end the pandemics and we need to do so to make the whole world great again. I would bet the number of people supporting him would be way far from zero, all over the world.

Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

#229

Post by t0bia_s »

ggrelet wrote: post #184
t0bia_s wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By your logic... I know personaly two people dead two weeks after vax and one paralyzed on half body week after vax. Schould I consider Djokovic as hero?

Was all this the consequence of the vaccine or the Covid itself?

Heart-failure (healthy, 69y man, two weeks after second dose), myocarditis (79y woman, month after 1st dose, I'dont know what was her health condition exactly), half body paralysis (55y, man, week after fisrt dose).

Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

#230

Post by ls15 »

alkonaut wrote: post #138
ls15 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mandating that players who are in the highest risk group for myocarditis must be vaccinated had no good basis to begin with

What are you saying? That it makes sense for anyone in any age group to avoid the vaccine because the risk of myocarditis is so much higher from the vaccine than from the disease? I think that's not very good math Because that's one of the easiest arguments to dispel. No one should be avoiding the vaccine for that reason. Not even those who had the disease once or twice already.

> What are you saying? That it makes sense for anyone in any age group to avoid the vaccine because the risk of myocarditis is so much higher from the vaccine than from the disease?

No, what I am saying is that mandating them is a stupid idea. Everyone should be free to do a personal benefit/risk assessment before undergoing any medical procedure. Politicians are no medical doctors and they should have no power to prescribe me a medical treatment. If you mix science with politics, you get politics.

I can see, how the vaccine may be utterly pointless for Djokovic, while it may be very important for others.

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