The impact of sexual abuse on female development: a longitudinal study • Hacker News Board

Re: The impact of sexual abuse on female development: a longitudinal study

#271

Post by wolverine876 » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 9:53 PM UTC

klipt wrote: post #87

sandworm101 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chilling but also a little reassuring. If you are a victim, knowing that a large percentage of the population has also been abused can help recovery. It says that it is very possible to be a victim and go on to a normal life. Want something very chilling? First year criminal law lecture on rape. Professor says "We have about a hundred people in this room. None of you future lawyers have criminal records. Statisticall…

Interesting how she assumed none of the men would be raped. Newer CDC stats (since ~2010 when they started asking men if they've ever been "made to penetrate" by a woman) show that female-on-male rape happens a lot more often than people think. https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2016/11/the-unde...

or male-on-male rape

Re: The impact of sexual abuse on female development: a longitudinal study

#272

Post by toomuchtodo » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 9:53 PM UTC

mbreese wrote: post #270

toomuchtodo wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can be done with a noninvasive blood test of the mother. I am a firm proponent of mandatory testing so fathers aren’t financially responsible for children that aren’t theirs (without their knowledge and consent). Historically, if a father later determines they're not the biological parent, family court will still stick them with child support until the child is 18 (or even older, sometimes requiring college suppor…

What will that accomplish? If a putative father is already suspicious (and doesn’t want to be a father), sure, then having a NIPT would make sense. But there is already an avenue for that. You would want to make that mandatory for all pregnancies? Not everyone wants to know that information and having a mandatory test could force people (fathers) into situations they don’t want to be in. Kids are more than a financia…

If it's not your kid biologically, and you're not a willing participant, it's not your responsibility. Pursue the biological parent for support. To do otherwise is equivalent to fraud.

We don't force foster kids on people without their informed consent. This is no different.

Edit: We agree to disagree. I fall firmly in the mandatory testing camp for accuracy of paternity for all involved parties. Trust but verify.

Re: The impact of sexual abuse on female development: a longitudinal study

#273

Post by not2b » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 9:53 PM UTC

tomp wrote: post #144

kmonsen wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you remove any jurors with history of abuse, do you not remove all the people that have life experience that could be relevant? With a jury of only lets say strong white males that have never been abused or abuse adjacent, but have had several experience where they felt woman didn't give them enough respect are we that would seem a lot worse to me. Obviously this sounds like an extreme example, but the reality is…

I'm a white male who's never been sexually abused but I can clearly see that's wrong. This, and being more objective / less emotional (due to not seeing it personally) would probably make me a better juror in such a case than someone who's personally experienced it.

With no experience of abuse, you might more likely to be persuaded by arguments like "why didn't she report it earlier" than people with actual experience, who know exactly why.

Re: The impact of sexual abuse on female development: a longitudinal study

#274

Post by not2b » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 9:55 PM UTC

deanCommie wrote: post #93

sandworm101 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they came back in tears and were removed from the jury, then the system worked. A clearly impartial potential juror was removed and a past victim was saved from a horrible experience of sitting through such testimony. But what about those who have been abused but aren't in tears? This came up very recently. One of the Ghislaine Maxwell jurors discussed his history of being abused with other jurors. The question be…

I find the very premise of trying to find an "impartial" jury very strange. It makes sense at first pass, but falls apart soon after. Are these not to be a jury of my "peers". Are not all humans biased in one way or another. If being abused creates bias, why wouldn't NOT being abused also not create bias. We don't have perfect access to information. Sometimes in order to be considered impartial, jurors are basically…

The "peers" part is obsolete. In the old English system, a peasant was tried by other peasants, a noble by other nobles. There's no longer a notion that some people are your peers and others aren't.

Re: The impact of sexual abuse on female development: a longitudinal study

#275

Post by drooogs » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 9:55 PM UTC

brnaftr360 wrote: post #236

Mezzie wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This isn't something that I have to personally worry about if I'm by myself, but it's something that so many women do have to worry about all the time. I can't even imagine the burden that women must carry. Not just women, but children. I was aware that I could be sexually assaulted/harrassed and what to do about it by the time I was 5, and I started getting uncomfortable comments in person around age 11. I'm also…

There's a considerable asymmetry here between men and women. I'm really curious about sussing it out and understanding how it develops. At an early age, about 5 or so I was exposed to sex, with peers, male/female. Later I was raped through coercion by two older children at 10-ish, male/female. Additionally none of this was ever reported until adulthood. As a male I've repeatedly been put in positions that I could des…

this is the sort of conversation that must be conducted very delicately, but it is something I have also wondered, having had similar experiences myself.

quite a few times I have experienced unwanted sexual advances/touching/groping in public spaces from women I considered friends, in front of our other friends. I don't consider those events traumatic, but certainly uncomfortable at the time. I never knew what to do, so I would just freeze and pretend it wasn't happening. once I actually went through with it and had sex with the person because I felt I had led her on by allowing her initial advances (dumb of me in hindsight).

perhaps one important difference is that I was physically stronger than every one of those people. I could have resisted, but didn't due to (possibly imagined) social pressure. like I said, I don't think there is any lasting trauma over these events; I think of them more as misunderstandings than assaults. but at the same time, all of these women were otherwise quite vocal about feminism, consent, etc. I wonder what they would have called it if I'd done the same things to them.

Re: The impact of sexual abuse on female development: a longitudinal study

#276

Post by mbreese » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 9:56 PM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #272

mbreese wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What will that accomplish? If a putative father is already suspicious (and doesn’t want to be a father), sure, then having a NIPT would make sense. But there is already an avenue for that. You would want to make that mandatory for all pregnancies? Not everyone wants to know that information and having a mandatory test could force people (fathers) into situations they don’t want to be in. Kids are more than a financia…

If it's not your kid biologically, and you're not a willing participant, it's not your responsibility. Pursue the biological parent for support. To do otherwise is equivalent to fraud. We don't force foster kids on people without their informed consent. This is no different. Edit: We agree to disagree. I fall firmly in the mandatory testing camp for accuracy of paternity for all involved parties. Trust but verify.

If you’re not a willing participant, then you can still have the test. If you’re the type where if the kid isn’t your biological kid, then you wouldn’t want to be a father to them — then get a test.

The question is — should it be mandatory for all pregnancies? Willing participant or otherwise. I’m not saying no one should have paternity testing. It should certainly be available. I just don’t think you should mandate it.

Re: The impact of sexual abuse on female development: a longitudinal study

#277

Post by drevil-v2 » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 9:58 PM UTC

sandworm101 wrote: post #162

drevil-v2 wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> One in ten (11%) women students experienced a sexual assault in a postsecondary setting during the previous year. About one in five (19%) women who were sexually assaulted said that the assault took the form of a sexual activity to which they did not consent after they had agreed to another form of sexual activity—for example, agreeing to have protected sex and then learning it had been unprotected sex. Is there a…

As this is from Statistics Canada, they would be using the government definitions, which include rape on the sexual assault spectrum. https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/rp-pr/cj-jp/victim/rr14_01/p10...

Obviously rape would be at one end of the spectrum but what's the distribution of incidents over the entire spectrum?

They say in that report you linked in the OP that they include "behaviours such as unwelcome sexual comments, actions or advances" which are entirely subjective.

Re: The impact of sexual abuse on female development: a longitudinal study

#278

Post by greenonions » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 9:59 PM UTC

PaulHoule wrote: post #220

pessimizer wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. If the men are doing what you suggest, and find that they aren't capable of committing to a sexless lifetime and leave, that's even more misery heaped on the victim of abuse. Pretending like one pain cancels another out is counterproductive. Pain causing pain doesn't just stop there, it's nonlinear. Also suggesting that someone is basically an abuser for mentioning the pain of the families of abused peopl…

I posted this article and it's an issue I became aware of because of my personal connection. I know it is a lot bigger than the suffering I've felt. Although I think the experience of ordinary men is invisible and often systematically erased (such as by people like the one you are replying to) I am not going to say that the paper omits the impact that sexual abuse has on partners because the kind of longitudinal stud…

Indeed the suffering from abuse can reach everyone around them. And the suffering of partners is very real, as a loving intimate relationship is one of life's great joys.

I suppose that I was struck by the above comment mostly because it is so focused on the suffering of abused women's partners as to be jarring in the context of the OP. These sensibilities are my own however, and I should not judge so hastily

Re: The impact of sexual abuse on female development: a longitudinal study

#279

Post by ars » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 10:00 PM UTC

sp332 wrote: post #139

zozbot234 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mike Pence rule. Don't ever be alone with a vulnerable person without a neutral third party being present, it wreaks havoc on the threat-detection instinct. As the saying goes, "you're not paranoid if someone really is out to get you."

This can disadvantage those people in other ways though. Just trying to get work done, it helps to be able to drop into someone's office without arranging for a chaperone. Or stopping by somewhere without checking the number and gender of people who will be there ahead of time.

> it helps to be able to drop into someone's office without arranging for a chaperone.

You can leave the door to the office open at all times. Or use a glass wall or door so people can see in, but maybe not overhear.

Re: The impact of sexual abuse on female development: a longitudinal study

#280

Post by int0x2e » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 10:01 PM UTC

throwawayboise wrote: post #237

naasking wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The jury has to judge how a reasonable person would act in a certain situation, who is lying and who is telling the truth. And they should do this by weighing the evidence impartially, not emotionally.

Exactly. The juror's ignorance or lack of direct experience with the alleged offense does not make him less able to evaluate the evidence. It is the prosecution's job to present the evidence with enough clarity to remove reasonable doubt.

But it does play a part if the jurors lack critical context. If no one on the jury can understand how a victim of sexual assault could be frozen during an attack, they might fall into the trap of thinking things like "how could it have been rape if she never said 'no'?" or alternatively, they could cling to some things like a male victim being aroused and assume that means the act was consensual. One could argue that this could simply be explained by the prosecution via expert witness - but I think we all know the Dunning-Kruger effect well enough by now to understand how that won't work in all cases.

I don't know if we should (or even can) aim to have a victim included on any set of jurors, but removing them altogether seems like a very bad strategy.