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More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

theatlantic.com

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Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#631

Post by belorn »

mizzack wrote: post #246
afavour wrote: post #129

I'm vaxxed. I'm boosted. I'd very much like to be done. But my children cannot be vaccinated. As a parent of a young kid it kind of feels like everyone has just moved on. I know folks in here will tell me that statistically speaking my children are unlikely to be hospitalized and so on, and I agree. But I know enough kids who got COVID and suffered the symptoms (e.g. a months-long scratchy cough) that I'm not going t…

You've got your anecdotes, and I've got mine. My 3 young kids all caught omicron last week. Each were lethargic for a day, had a minor sore throat, and were back to normal in a day or two. The flu last month was way scarier with high fevers. There's a lot of reason to be optimistic about omicron.

I would be much more concerned about omicron. The flu is very unlikely to have any long term effects as long one keep an eye on the fever. We don't know about the long term effects of omicron.

What we do know about covid is for example fatigue and long term lung damage, both which can have very debilitating effects on health, wealth and social well being. Lung damage in particular can be hard to detect without doing an actually study after the infection.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#632

Post by McGlockenshire »

NaturalPhallacy wrote: post #475
Melatonic wrote: post #247

I know everyone is tired of this shit but I just want to remind everyone of one thing: This is the FIRST time humanity has come together and actually come up with a way to beat a virus WHILE a global pandemic is still ongoing. At no other time in history have we even had the option of a solid way to protect ourselves like we do now. I think instead of focusing on how awful the past few years have been this is an impo…

I'm not convince we did beat it. For decades people would ask, "why is there no vaccine for the cold or flu like smallpox, measles, mumps, rubella, and chicken pox?" and the answer was that they were fast evolving corona viruses and you cannot vaccinate for those. Then suddenly we have one this time. But it's efficacy drops - according to Pfizer's own trial - to ~47% after six months. And people "double vaxxed and bo…

> And people "double vaxxed and boosted" still get it. And still die from it.

The Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine is 91% effective in preventing the COVID-19 virus with symptoms in people age 16 and older. The Moderna COVID-19 vaccine is 94% effective in preventing COVID-19 with symptoms. Janssen/Johnson & Johnson COVID-19 vaccine. In clinical trials, this vaccine was 66% effective in preventing the COVID-19 virus with symptoms — as of 14 days after vaccination. The vaccine also was 85% effective at preventing severe disease with COVID-19 — at least 28 days after vaccination.

Source: The Mayo Clinic https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/i...

I'm not going to bother debunking the rest of that bullshit. Your statement is straight out of the anti-vaccine propaganda playbook. Shame on you for spreading FUD.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#633

Post by astrange »

robbrown451 wrote: post #525
jsodw wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

And we don't know the long term psychological effects of wearing masks and social distancing. Those may be substantial as well, especially if it goes on for more than 2 years. Long term COVID is known to exist, long term effects of vaccination are not and there is no reason to think they are likely. (me: vaxxed, boosted, happy to boost some more. My 7 year old: vaxxed. My attitude: exactly as described as a "VAD" in…

> And we don't know the long term psychological effects of wearing masks and social distancing.

It might turn you Japanese or Finnish.

Americans spend all their lives socially distanced anyway - it's called driving.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#634

Post by swader999 »

SubiculumCode wrote: post #463
edmundsauto wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And we aren’t shutting society down because of the risk of C19 to small children either. The risk to children is part of that, but the risk to the adults who care for them is another reason. Additionally, staffing levels are impacted because the adults who have it. Also, generically, when we have a super spreadable disease, we want to minimize transmission. This is done as a precaution against mutation (the more infe…

At this point, Omicron is looking like its going to vaccinate a large portion of the population, especially the more folks resistant to vaccination. My hope is that Omicron is the real first step to herd immunity.

No, it'll live and mutate in deer, rodents cats etc. Won't see herd immunity ever. Even this 'natural' vaccine won't distribute fast enough to outrun the pace of its mutations.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#635

Post by astrange »

oxymoran wrote: post #420
afavour wrote: post #129

I'm vaxxed. I'm boosted. I'd very much like to be done. But my children cannot be vaccinated. As a parent of a young kid it kind of feels like everyone has just moved on. I know folks in here will tell me that statistically speaking my children are unlikely to be hospitalized and so on, and I agree. But I know enough kids who got COVID and suffered the symptoms (e.g. a months-long scratchy cough) that I'm not going t…

“ We're still very unclear on the long-term effects of COVID, after all.” Nor do we know the long term effects of the vaccines. What we do know is that children have “statistical immunity” to dying from covid right now. Long term consequences could come from either covid or a vaccine, worry about what you can control. And covid is out of control so stop worrying about it.

Vaccines don't have long term effects.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#636

Post by kalstone »

BobbyJo wrote: post #544
BoysenberryPi wrote: post #507

I don't want to talk about vaccines anymore. Whatever study people have to cherry pick or whatever beliefs you may hold, whatever your stance is, most people have made the decision on whether or not to be vaccinated. What I wish we focused on instead, is the medical system as a whole. We've been hearing stories everyday about how hospitals are on the brink of collapse. Why, in 2 years of this pandemic, have we not de…

We aren't short on 'resources', we are short on doctors and nurses. It doesn't matter how much money you throw at things, the number of doctors isn't going to change drastically. You can pay them 10x and the number won't change. We only have so many medical schools, and so many people willing to throw themselves on the sword to get through them. Nurses are a little more flexible in that more money might mean more nur…

It also did not help to have mass firings of doctors and nurses just as the new variant rolled in

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#637

Post by whimsicalism »

Nbox9 wrote: post #605
TimTheTinker wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I know someone who almost quit a great job because they were mad about a vaccine mandate from their employer. [...] That is what failing the marshmallow test looks like. Or perhaps it's a matter of personal principle. Personal conscience and conviction used to be held sacred in the US ... to the point that conscientious objectors wouldn't be forced to fight in wars (they could be assigned to work as medics in Army…

> Personal conscience and conviction used to be held sacred in the US […] it has become politically incorrect to have a personal principle or conviction that contradicts the approved viewpoint, or otherwise goes against the grain. I think you might have a grandiose mental image of America’s past. The 1798 Sedition Act ‘made it a crime to publish "false, scandalous, and malicious writing" against the government or its…

I am fascinated by this sort of thing. So many people perceive there to be some great American democratic republic tradition being aborated in recent years... but we didn't even get majoritarian democracy until the mid-20th century, and there was certainly not the sort of strong deference to the bill of rights historically that people seem to imagine.

I feel like this mythical conception of the history of America has been increasing with time.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#638

Post by wallacoloo »

sobellian wrote: post #499
TimTheTinker wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I know someone who almost quit a great job because they were mad about a vaccine mandate from their employer. [...] That is what failing the marshmallow test looks like. Or perhaps it's a matter of personal principle. Personal conscience and conviction used to be held sacred in the US ... to the point that conscientious objectors wouldn't be forced to fight in wars (they could be assigned to work as medics in Army…

Scattershot vaccine mandates have increased the number of vaccinated. Those left will naturally have resisted some amount of authority, but that observation basically amounts to survivor bias - and it doesn't explain why those individuals failed to get the vaccine before there ever was a mandate.

we’re dealing in counterfactuals here, so we’ll never truly know. one possibility is that vaccine mandates brought a large portion of those on-the-fence in to get a vaccine sooner than later, at the cost of pushing others on-the-fence way far away from ever getting the vaccine. i.e. a short-term boost in vax numbers at the cost of long-term rates. maybe worth it, maybe not (there’s so many second order effects).

in any case, i have friends here in progressive seattle who were part of the “vaccinate and done” group back in Apr/May but once the governor used vaccine uptake as an excuse to enforce new mandates now say “i’ll get the booster once i know doing so means i get to go back to normal”. so mandates definitely do push a certain type of otherwise compliant person away from getting the vaccine. i only have anecdata, but i think it’s worth keeping an eye on that viewpoint. could this “vaccine and done” group grow into a “reject mandates (including boosters) and done” if the mandates prevent them from actually being “done”?

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#639

Post by 01100011 »

BoysenberryPi wrote: post #507

I don't want to talk about vaccines anymore. Whatever study people have to cherry pick or whatever beliefs you may hold, whatever your stance is, most people have made the decision on whether or not to be vaccinated. What I wish we focused on instead, is the medical system as a whole. We've been hearing stories everyday about how hospitals are on the brink of collapse. Why, in 2 years of this pandemic, have we not de…

My wife is trying to become a nurse. Thanks to COVID screwing up her school schedule she's at least a year behind.

She's currently working as a residential assistant at rather nice elderly care facility where they are short staffed. She makes about what she would make at a fast food restaurant despite working in a semi-skilled position(requires CNA credentials) and working with COVID positive residents. They are just now discussing possible pay raises.

The pandemic experience is likely to push people out of health care and result in even less people choosing it as a career unless compensation and the workload changes. This comes just as the baby boomers are reaching an age when they'll start to need serious care.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#640

Post by defaultprimate »

awb wrote: post #617
defaultprimate wrote: post #533

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

You can ask “What if” of anything. We have limited information in almost every decision we make, yet we still have to decide (inaction is itself a decision). The key is what you fill in those bits of missing information with, not the results of the decision as no one is clairvoyant. This sounds like a gambler. “You’re putting $100 on black?” “Yeah, I could lose $100, but what if I’m right?” For both the gambler and t…

We're not talking about things occurring "randomly". We're taking about reasonable probability assessments based on available information. Those refusing the vaccination are operating with the same level of information about long term effects as those that get it: none. People that get the vaccine have no empirical evidence that it will be beneficial or not harmful in the long run. No long term data exists for the techniques or methodology.

Your nutrition example is a great parallel because if we would have looked at the funding and long term data regarding the food pyramid, simple carbs, etc vs fats instead of just "trusting the experts" we wouldn't have an epidemic of obese, diabetic gen x and millennials. There's tons of sound empirical evidence about the long term health benefits of vegetables. It's complete false equivalence

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