More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’ • Hacker News Board

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#411

Post by jorblumesea » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 7:52 PM UTC

wonderwonder wrote: post #124

I am one of those, triple vaxxed and done. CDC has now said that the majority of those that died had 4+ co-morbidities. They have also indicated that getting vaccinated does not reduce your ability to spread the virus. So if that is the case, there is no longer a real need to vilify the unvaxxed. CDC statement appears to indicate that the primary reason for people dying is poor physical health prior to infection. Wit…

> So if that is the case, there is no longer a real need to vilify the unvaxxed.

This is such a bad take. Unvaxxed cause the majority of hospitalizations, deaths and complications. This is just objectively wrong that it doesn't matter that much.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#412

Post by nwiswell » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 7:52 PM UTC

dnautics wrote: post #253

nwiswell wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of your points have validity, but three are borderline dangerous misinformation: - The majority of those who died WITH THE VACCINE had 4+ co-morbidities. The virus is still very dangerous to the unvaccinated - The vaccine does indeed reduce your propensity to spread the virus, although it doesn't eliminate the risk. - The reason for lockdowns is not to make the virus "go away". It is to control the impact on the…

> The virus is still very dangerous to the unvaccinated Do we know this about omicron? How dangerous is "very dangerous"? As it is with pre-omicron, CFR for COVID-19 was, pessimistically, 0.5-1%, less if you're not in an at-risk group. AFAICT we have no reliable numbers on "long covid". For the record, I am not anti-vaxx, I am vaccinated, I'm just anti-using-science-as-an-ideology.

> Do we know this about omicron?

Here's the early numbers out of major cities:

https://i.imgur.com/g8tyRdQ.png

It's probably somewhere between 75% as serious and as serious as Delta, but we can't be sure yet.

The handwaving about 0.5% - 1% is ultimately not something I can address because it is opinion. A million Americans are dead from this and more deaths are coming. Reminds me of the Stalin quote.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#413

Post by sleepysysadmin » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 7:52 PM UTC

Insanity wrote: post #167

Mikeb85 wrote: post #66

I'm vaxxed and mostly done. Already contracted Covid, have 2 vaccines, I'm down to get a booster every year or two, at my own leisure. Having vaccines mandated every 6 months is not something I'm OK with and to be honest, it feels a lot like the government trying to deflect from the fact healthcare isn't OK (at least in my home country, Canada). There's always been risks to life and this feels more like governments a…

Tangentially, I recently moved to Canada and was surprised by the lack of quality healthcare.. Literally could not believe some walk ins have paper files and use fax, plus finding a GP apparently is a months long quest. Visiting a specialist took ages, and I wouldn’t say it was the best / most modern infrastructure there either. (And I went in downtown Toronto, must be so much worse for more remote places I guess). I…

>Tangentially, I recently moved to Canada and was surprised by the lack of quality healthcare..

This is very complex and absolutely hilarious when American democrats think of Canada as a better solution.

>Literally could not believe some walk ins have paper files and use fax, plus finding a GP apparently is a months long quest.

We have very good laws in place protecting health information. $10,000 tort damages for leaking health infos and then much larger fines for more problematic issues.

Some hospitals try to do the right thing and will have high security maturity. The other hospitals basically do the opposite. They forcefully will not secure their systems and save the money and put it in a fund to pay out the inevitable breach.

>Visiting a specialist took ages, and I wouldn’t say it was the best / most modern infrastructure there either.

Canada's healthcare system is tiered. You have the public single payer which is trash at best. Virtually all employers pay for health benefits which bring you to the 2nd tier. This gets you into a ward and such. There's a 3rd tier where you get good service, private rooms, skip lines. If you work in public sector or a big union you most likely are on this 3rd tier. The final tier is for the people whose names are on the wards. The "Such and such family ward" because they donated significant money to the hospital. These people get immediate access to everything you might expect. Nicest rooms. everything.

>(And I went in downtown Toronto, must be so much worse for more remote places I guess).

85% of Canadians live in urban areas near to the US border. If you choose to live somewhere else, you know you're living far from civilization and already accept the lack of service.

>In the end we kind of shunned the public system and decided to go private healthcare instead. But (luckily) have not really had to take advantage of it)

dont get me wrong. I dont mind our tiered system. ohip covers the basics which everyone should get coverage for. Break your arm? taxpayers/rich pay to fix it. 2nd tier is plenty for most people. 3rd tier is nice but most people dont realize it exists. Ive had a lady talking to me about how she has to wait many months to get in to a specialist, the same specialist that I waited a whole 3 days for. Also yes, the billionaire folks are going to get the best treatment, it's no surprise.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#414

Post by nradov » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 7:52 PM UTC

bko wrote: post #318

snowwrestler wrote: post #133

I feel like COVID has become like a marshmallow test for adults, where those who can manage their emotions and make rational decisions can set themselves up for greater long-term rewards. It looked for a while there like this could be a thing that gets “done”—that we would get a good vaccine into enough people, then incidence would decline so far it just goes away. That didn’t happen. We’re stuck with it for a forese…

> It looked for a while there like this could be a thing that gets “done”—that we would get a good vaccine into enough people, then incidence would decline so far it just goes away... That didn’t happen. We’re stuck with it for a foreseeable future. Well, one can cry for the world that was, or one can get up and live in the world that is. Whats the magic number? There are places like New York that have 95% over 18 wi…

I encourage everyone eligible to protect themselves by getting vaccinated but the Delta and Omicron variants are so contagious that there will be no significant herd immunity effect.

https://www.businessinsider.com/delta-variant-made-herd-immu...

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#415

Post by kmonad » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 7:52 PM UTC

ya_throw wrote: post #111

kmonad wrote: post #92

Every viral replication is an event that could yield a new variant. A new variant can lead to new problems. It is therefore of interest to limit viral replications. This, in addition to the health care system capacities, are crucial targets to address. Fortunately, vaccines can improve both targets due to the reduced (though now less effectively so) infection rates, shorter infection periods, etc. This makes me perso…

How can you simultaneously say that Covid will become endemic, and also that we need to try to control its mutation rate? Ongoing mutation is a fact of (viral) life.

I do not understand your question in the first sentence, sorry. And I agree with your second sentence.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#416

Post by ketzo » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 7:53 PM UTC

Karsteski wrote: post #377

ketzo wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there is no longer a real need to vilify the unvaxxed I very, very much disagree with this. Unvaccinated people have a much higher rate of severe illness that requires hospitalization. Filling up hospitals unnecessarily kills people, and delays preventative care. People who are voluntarily unvaxxed without a medical necessity are, to be clear, 1) categorically stupid 2) responsible for the injury and death of other…

I very, very much disagree with this. Obese people have a much higher rate of severe illness that requires hospitalization. Filling up hospitals unnecessarily kills people, and delays preventative care. People who are voluntarily obese without a medical necessity are, to be clear, 1) categorically stupid 2) responsible for the injury and death of others. ------------------------------------------- See how off-putting…

Ah, yes. Obesity, that problem that can be solved with a free, walk-in appointment at any drugstore in the country.

These two things are a perfect, 1:1 analogy.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#417

Post by madcaptenor » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 7:53 PM UTC

avidphantasm wrote: post #334

el_benhameen wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am with you on all of this, with one small, slightly hopeful note. My under-5 is enrolled in the Pfizer study, and they are not starting over from scratch. The existing cohort is going to receive a third dose at >2 months past their last dose (starting at the end of this month, probably), and then immunogenicity will be reassessed. I am incredibly frustrated that pfizer and the fda have been so slow to roll the vac…

Given that safety has been proven in 6mo to <5yo, and the dose for the 3yo and 4yo is in question (hence testing 3rd dose), I see no reason why doses one and two cannot proceed in these groups. Surely some exposure to the virus is better than none. At least give parents the option. My 3.7yo is the same weight as a median 5yo. My wife and I have had two doses of Pfizer and one Moderna booster. We would get my daughter…

I had a similar thought to this (and my kid is the same age as yours) but apparently immune response isn't based on weight - see e.g. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/26/well/live/child-vaccine-d... . It's not like giving them Tylenol.

That being said, after hearing about 10- and 11-year-olds pretending to be 12 so that they could get vaccinated I did have a moment where I wondered if she could pass for 5.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#418

Post by nodamage » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 7:53 PM UTC

xkbarkar wrote: post #233

stuckonempty wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They have also indicated that getting vaccinated does not reduce your ability to spread the virus That is not correct. Vaccination does reduce, but does not eliminate, transmission of the virus “ We found that both the BNT162b2 and ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 vaccines were associated with reduced onward transmission of SARS-CoV-2 from index patients who became infected despite vaccination.” https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.105…

look at data for iceland, 92% of the adult population and spread is mainly among the double vaccinated. Triple is lower but that is expected to wear off ( if Isreal is to be beleiveied ). https://www.covid.is/data . No, vaccination dos not reduce spread of omicron. Not even a little. It does do a fantastic job of reducing hospitalisations among delta infected.

> No, vaccination dos not reduce spread of omicron. Not even a little.

You can't really make that conclusion based on a simple case count chart, because you don't know what those numbers would look like if the vaccination rate was lower.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#419

Post by bequanna » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 7:53 PM UTC

ethbr0 wrote: post #374

bequanna wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are the children in this trial part of high risk groups? I guess I am quite surprised to hear that there are drug trials for healthy children that young. In this case, the risk/reward seems very imbalanced almost to the point being unethical.

We give other vaccines to children that young [0]. As far as I know, there are really only two differences vs adult vaccines. Regulatory - The FDA et al. have a higher standard for what they'll approve in young children, given their developmental stages and substantial post-vaccine expected lifespan. Biological - Early childhood immune systems work differently than adults', in that they have substantially boosted inn…

Right, but isn’t the main difference that children are still developing?

Shouldn’t we try very hard to avoid the possibility of screwing up a growing child’s body?

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#420

Post by oxymoran » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 7:53 PM UTC

afavour wrote: post #129

I'm vaxxed. I'm boosted. I'd very much like to be done. But my children cannot be vaccinated. As a parent of a young kid it kind of feels like everyone has just moved on. I know folks in here will tell me that statistically speaking my children are unlikely to be hospitalized and so on, and I agree. But I know enough kids who got COVID and suffered the symptoms (e.g. a months-long scratchy cough) that I'm not going t…

“ We're still very unclear on the long-term effects of COVID, after all.”

Nor do we know the long term effects of the vaccines. What we do know is that children have “statistical immunity” to dying from covid right now. Long term consequences could come from either covid or a vaccine, worry about what you can control. And covid is out of control so stop worrying about it.