Procrastinatory Doom Loops • Hacker News Board

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#271

Post by hirvi74 » Sun, Jan 09, 2022, 8:33 PM UTC

romwell wrote: post #254

randallsquared wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's like magic to be honest For nearly everyone, if I understand correctly, ADHD or no.

You understand incorrectly, and you are propagating a harmful stereotype (which makes medication harder to obtain for people who need it). Aderall has vastly different effects on people with ADHD vs. the rest. The best I can say is the Adderall makes us feel the way you feel normally . To us, it feels like magic. The ability to switch from a task you're engaged in? The ability to do something that you need to do and…

Any sources for your claims, I've read the opposite?

> Many double blind studies over the past 40 years have uniformly agreed that stimulants such as methylphenidate, dextro-amphetamine, as well as other substances, are very effective in the treatment of 70%–80% of children and adults with ADHD. One of the myths of ADHD is that ADHD children show a paradoxical effect of being calmed by stimulants, while “normal” individuals are stimulated by them. However, studies have shown that the activity levels are decreased and attention levels are increased by stimulants in individuals with and without ADHD. The difference is that since the levels of hyperactivity and inattention are much higher in ADHD subjects, the improvement is relatively much greater, giving the impression that they respond, while non-ADHD subjects do not.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC2626918/

I also have ADHD, and I feel like the medication benefits are vastly overstated. To use an analogy, I was lead to believe that the medication is as effective as opioids for severe pain, but my experiences have been about as effective as Ibuprofen for severe pain. I've tried many different formulations, brands, drug classes -- many of which multiple times at multiple dosages, and I don't feel "magical" yet.

I still take some meds because they're better than nothing, but I am starting to wonder if people are just being overly hyperbolic, and I had too great of expectations.

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#272

Post by hirvi74 » Sun, Jan 09, 2022, 8:41 PM UTC

romwell wrote: post #268

randallsquared wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I have never taken that specific stimulant, nor been diagnosed with ADHD, my partner is diagnosed, and I'm... somewhat familiar with the topic, let's say (though she's prescribed something other than Adderall). You may have read SSC[0][1] on the topic, but I'll leave it here in case you haven't, or for others. [0] https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/12/28/adderall-risks-much-mo... [1] SSC (now switched to astralcod…

>While I have never taken that specific stimulant, nor been diagnosed with ADHD ...you are not qualified to make statements of the sort, and I urge you to listen to people who have been diagnosed with ADHD and do take Adderall. Another, fascinating thing to consider is that you may have ADHD . I was one of those people who said things similar to what you just did, because I had no idea that everyone, in fact, did not…

What are your credentials? Why should we trust your blog post over some random post on Facebook or Reddit?

I am not trying to be rude or anything. I am just more likely to believe a medical professional's opinions on medical topics than a non-medical professional.

With that being said, that doesn't mean you cannot still be right. I'm just curious for my own personal reasons.

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#273

Post by romwell » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 5:46 AM UTC

davidjytang wrote: post #260

thoughtpeddler wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't so quickly jump to "that's an ADHD symptom". I know many people inarguably not ADHD who exhibit similar task timescales. I don't want to discount the fact that this can be a hallmark symptom of ADHD for those that truly have/are ADHD. However, some part of this reaction is over-pathologization. It's increasingly accepted that ADHD is over-diagnosed [1] [2] [3], and I feel that this task timescale concept a…

An ADHD symptom does not require the patient to have ADHD.

Have no idea why you were downvoted. That's true of most conditions (if it weren't, getting a correct diagnosis would be a straightforward manner!).

Some symptoms are necessary (but not sufficient) conditions; some are sufficient (but not necessary).

And sometimes you can only be sure about having condition X because the treatment for condition X makes your health improve.

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#274

Post by romwell » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 5:47 AM UTC

omginternets wrote: post #248

medstrom wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't worry about people, thanks for posting it, very much liked it.

Same here. I really enjoyed it. The 11 year old package provided some much needed laughter (partly at myself for having done similar things).

Thanks to both of you! You just made my day :)

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#275

Post by romwell » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 6:07 AM UTC

hirvi74 wrote: post #271

romwell wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You understand incorrectly, and you are propagating a harmful stereotype (which makes medication harder to obtain for people who need it). Aderall has vastly different effects on people with ADHD vs. the rest. The best I can say is the Adderall makes us feel the way you feel normally . To us, it feels like magic. The ability to switch from a task you're engaged in? The ability to do something that you need to do and…

Any sources for your claims, I've read the opposite? > Many double blind studies over the past 40 years have uniformly agreed that stimulants such as methylphenidate, dextro-amphetamine, as well as other substances, are very effective in the treatment of 70%–80% of children and adults with ADHD. One of the myths of ADHD is that ADHD children show a paradoxical effect of being calmed by stimulants, while “normal” indi…

Medication doesn't have the same effect for everyone. I was lucky in the way it worked for me, perhaps.

The point is, just experiencing this month of calm and ability to do things helped me overcome a lifetime of learned helplessness.

I am more effective now without Adderall than I was before I've had it, simply because I can catch myself getting into the brain fog and using e.g. the help of my partner to break out of it.

Speaking of Ibuprofen, it feels like magic to me too. I've had 100+ degree fever from COVID booster, my whole body was aching, I felt cold, but putting my socks on (which I had in my hands felt like an immense chore). Ibuprofen cleared that within an hour.

Was it "severe" pain? Let's say, I've had worse. But Ibuprofen took me from 100% non-functioning to mostly-functioning. Magic.

In any case, I feel like what you wrote does not contradict what I said.

Let's use glasses as an analogy. Arguably, prescription glasses can be used by people with good vision either to resolve finer print, or to resolve text much further away. The laws of optics work the same for them.

However, we would say that the effect of wearing glasses is drastically different for people who need a strong prescription vs. people who do not.

As they say, size (of the effect) matters.

>The difference is that since the levels of hyperactivity and inattention are much higher in ADHD subjects, the improvement is relatively much greater, giving the impression that they respond, while non-ADHD subjects do not.

It's like saying that giving food to someone who's starving is the same as to someone who's eating well. The effect is the same, the response is different.

Those who don't live in constant brain fog don't really get to feel how Adderall helps with that.

Anyway, my personal experience with Adderall is written up here:

https://romankogan.net/adhd/#Medication

I'll be glad to look to sources to back up my claims (or stand corrected and learn); but can you help me out and say what it is that you want references for? I struggled to understand where we're disagreeing, though we'd perhaps use different words to talk about the same thing.

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#276

Post by romwell » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 6:22 AM UTC

hirvi74 wrote: post #272

romwell wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>While I have never taken that specific stimulant, nor been diagnosed with ADHD ...you are not qualified to make statements of the sort, and I urge you to listen to people who have been diagnosed with ADHD and do take Adderall. Another, fascinating thing to consider is that you may have ADHD . I was one of those people who said things similar to what you just did, because I had no idea that everyone, in fact, did not…

What are your credentials? Why should we trust your blog post over some random post on Facebook or Reddit? I am not trying to be rude or anything. I am just more likely to believe a medical professional's opinions on medical topics than a non-medical professional. With that being said, that doesn't mean you cannot still be right. I'm just curious for my own personal reasons.

I don't have medical credentials.

I do have an ADHD diagnosis confirmed by multiple people who do, and a PhD in math as a baseline for avoiding making false claims.

You should trust my blog because about 50% of it is quotes/art from ADHD advocates (with and without credentials), and the rest is details of how it applies to me.

I'm speaking there as a member of a community.

My blog has three kinds of information:

* My personal experience. This is obviously 100% true, as I'm the primary source on that.

* Relatable illustrations/comics, made by ADHD advocates, and relatable memes, taken from ADHD communities, which indicate that my experience is shared by many other people, and help you understand it better.

You shouldn't trust my blog. It's meant as a PSA. It's there for one reason only:

For you, to see if you relate to many of these entries.

If you do, then this is a starting point for you to understand yourself better, and get help.

This blog is also intended as an aid for ADHD people to explain the condition to others. Many people have thanked me as it helped them to that end.

Guess I'll add a testimonials section one day.

Finally, of course you should trust the opinions of medical professionals. You'll find that I'm either linking those, or if you look them up, they corroborate my experience.

However, again, this blog is not meant as a diagnostic tool or an authoritative source. It's for other undiagnosed people with ADHD to learn about what it is that they have.

I was one of such people. I learned about ADHD from memes. I'm passing it on.

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#277

Post by bongoman37 » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 7:25 AM UTC

a-dub wrote: post #79

NackerHughes wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well that's all well and good for those who have somebody who loves them. What if you're single? Guess we're all doomed.

nah. you can have non-romantic accountability partners. in fact, i'd say it's more the norm than the exception. (and often sort of emergent and far from the phrase "accountability partner", which is a bit formal)

No post body was provided.

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#278

Post by romwell » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 9:14 AM UTC

omginternets wrote: post #253

romwell wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I have what OP describes like crazy, I beat myself up over it frequently and think I need to do better. Yet somehow I keep getting glowing reviews at work and even just got promoted without asking. Hey, I have a PhD in mathematics, work experience in Microsoft and Google (among others), glowing reviews and all. And you know what would have been great? Getting treatment in high school, so that getting here would have…

Small protip for your phone: buy an induction charger that keeps the phone upright on your desk. - it’s cool - phone is always charged - you’ll never lose it again, bc it’s just so cool to charge your phone on that thing - did I mention it’s cool?

Sadly, no Qi support on the phone that I currently have. But thanks for the tip!

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#279

Post by romwell » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 9:14 AM UTC

Apocryphon wrote: post #238

romwell wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I have what OP describes like crazy, I beat myself up over it frequently and think I need to do better. Yet somehow I keep getting glowing reviews at work and even just got promoted without asking. Hey, I have a PhD in mathematics, work experience in Microsoft and Google (among others), glowing reviews and all. And you know what would have been great? Getting treatment in high school, so that getting here would have…

I appreciate the effort behind this post a lot. Some of the life hacks seem helpful, and the some of the realizations are affirming. Thanks for sharing.

Thanks so much for saying this!

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#280

Post by tgaj » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 11:49 AM UTC

john567 wrote: post #257

omginternets wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was recently diagnosed with ADHD. I am 34. Part of what took so long to get this diagnosed is that it is poorly named. I do not have a deficit of attention; in fact, I have extreme sustained attention [0]. If the symptoms described by the parent poster are causing you to suffer, please consider that it might be ADHD, and that ADHD does not necessarily manifest in the way it's name suggests it should. Please also co…

I'm 35 and have been thinking about this a lot. I start working on something and soon there after there is a constant stream of ideas and improvements that I could act on but aren't necessary right now. I write all these ideas down to get them out of my head but sometimes this process has a cascading effect and I find myself three layers deep into something very stimulating and interesting but it is not really what I…

Yes, it looks like ADHD symptom. It's called hyperfocus. People with ADHD often focus on something that is giving instant gratification (like learning new thing or trying to find clever solution for a problem). The other, probably simpler things are neglected. And no it's not just "caused by Internet and smartphones". I had this before I even got a computer. I was hyperfocusing on reading books (very shallow, just wanting to check what will happen next). TV was boring because it was too slow.