Procrastinatory Doom Loops • Hacker News Board

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#231

Post by thevagrant » Sat, Jan 08, 2022, 12:31 AM UTC

alx__ wrote: post #209

romwell wrote: post #143

>I do tasks on three timescales: they either get done immediately, after a shamefully massive delay, or not at all. There’s little in-between. To anyone relating: that's an ADHD symptom. It falls under the umbrella of Executive Dysfunction[1]. I have been beating myself up for it all my life, and turns out there are many things that work differently for people with ADHD - and many things that help (from medication[2]…

In my experience getting an adult ADHD diagnosis is a long process. Especially if you've never looked into it. After getting lost in the process last year. Re-attempting this year, i'm again stalled as they want my anxiety/depression scores to drop before testing for ADHD. So don't give up, when the system puts up walls. I assume this is due to the potential addiction side-affects for the drugs (stimulants) for non-A…

Yup when i got diagnosed it required investigation into my school records (20 years prior, I got diagnosed as an adult).

Looking over my life since childhood, diagnosis is clear cut. I was lucky to have old school reports and letters from teachers.

To be honest, it isn't difficult for some. I've heard of others walking in and getting "diagnosed" within 5 minutes. I do think some people getting diagnosed with adhd as adults may instead have depression rather than adhd. Unfortunately they don't want to admit to depression.

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#232

Post by jrs235 » Sat, Jan 08, 2022, 12:54 AM UTC

cipheredStones wrote: post #227

jrs235 wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been dealing with overcoming some severe procrastination issues again. I was doing some "Spring" cleaning over the last few weeks and came across several books I had bought and read in the past. I picked up, The Now Habit[0], and opened it to page 103 (of my version/copy). Below is a bit of a wall of text with I assume several typos. Please forgive me, I read the following excerpt out loud and used speech to tex…

I've owned The Now Habit since 2011 - unread, which gets funnier every year.

I actually have owned it since December 15, 2012. But I only made it about half way through.

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#233

Post by PebblesRox » Sat, Jan 08, 2022, 12:59 AM UTC

beaconstudios wrote: post #166

bluejellybean wrote: post #134

Another trick that I haven't seen anyone talk about in this thread is visualization. I'll use this whenever I notice the loop, but still don't have the courage to actually stop. I'll pause for a moment, tell myself that I am NOT going to do the thing exactly at this moment, but instead I will just visualize the exact steps needed for when I eventually sit down to do it. This helps for those situations in which I'm pr…

100% this. I've commented similar elsewhere in the thread with a similar position - essentially, there's something you need to do that you're avoiding, some problem you need to resolve, and it's emotionally uncomfortable. Many of us have learned to avoid discomfort, but often times you need to go through it to make progress. It's best if you can minimise that discomfort in order to make headway, and simply breaking d…

I definitely agree. Procrastination is a feelings problem and it took me a long time to realize that.

Often when I actually do the thing, I realize it is harder or feels worse than I was consciously feeling. It makes me think, "Oh yeah, no wonder I was putting this off. This is hard."

An example of this is decluttering, which sounds easy but in reality involves making a lot of difficult, often emotional decisions (i.e. coming to terms with the fact that I'm not actually going to use something any time soon so it would be better to get rid of it than keep it hanging around taking up space).

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#234

Post by romwell » Sat, Jan 08, 2022, 1:34 AM UTC

JackMcMack wrote: post #220

thoughtpeddler wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't so quickly jump to "that's an ADHD symptom". I know many people inarguably not ADHD who exhibit similar task timescales. I don't want to discount the fact that this can be a hallmark symptom of ADHD for those that truly have/are ADHD. However, some part of this reaction is over-pathologization. It's increasingly accepted that ADHD is over-diagnosed [1] [2] [3], and I feel that this task timescale concept a…

I'm not usually someone to complain about a comment or opinion, but this conflicts so much with my experience that I feel compelled to respond. I was diagnosed about 1.5 years ago, in my 30's. I would argue that yes, "that's an ADHD symptom". One symptom does not make a diagnosis, but if you recognize yourself definitely do your research and consult a professional. Especially for the many people you know who show sim…

First, thank you for sharing your perspective, which I find valuable and fully agree with.

Second, thank you for putting in the time and effort to write a detailed response that directly addresses the point, as well as sharing your personal experience.

Third, I'm so glad you finally got help, and no longer need to live your life in the hard/nightmare mode.

Fourth, I really wish everyone here read your comment, because it illuminates both why there many undiagnosed adults out there, and why getting the diagnosis (and getting over the stigma) is so hard.

And finally, it seems like writing comments of this type (much longer then average, very detailed, huge in scope, with every claim backed by either reference, personal experience, or both) is a neurodivergent trait. I feel like ADHD in particular makes one used to fact-checking themselves (because memory is unreliable), and presenting information with context that illustrates why you do know what you think you know (leading with personal experience) — since that's the way you'd want it yourself.

Happy to see comments like this on HackerNews!

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#235

Post by romwell » Sat, Jan 08, 2022, 1:44 AM UTC

omginternets wrote: post #213

romwell wrote: post #143

>I do tasks on three timescales: they either get done immediately, after a shamefully massive delay, or not at all. There’s little in-between. To anyone relating: that's an ADHD symptom. It falls under the umbrella of Executive Dysfunction[1]. I have been beating myself up for it all my life, and turns out there are many things that work differently for people with ADHD - and many things that help (from medication[2]…

I was recently diagnosed with ADHD. I am 34. Part of what took so long to get this diagnosed is that it is poorly named. I do not have a deficit of attention; in fact, I have extreme sustained attention [0]. If the symptoms described by the parent poster are causing you to suffer, please consider that it might be ADHD, and that ADHD does not necessarily manifest in the way it's name suggests it should. Please also co…

I could've written your comment word-for-word, to the extent that I did a double take and checked to make sure I didn't write it.

Personally, I say that ADHD stands for Awfully Described Human Disorder for that exact reason.

Many more thoughts on why it's poorly named here: https://romankogan.net/adhd/#Awfully%20Described%20Human%20D...

(Someone complained I'm linking to my blog too much, but I haven't posted this link yet, and I don't want to needlessly copy-paste something that I already wrote)

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#236

Post by romwell » Sat, Jan 08, 2022, 1:46 AM UTC

zhynn wrote: post #188

romwell wrote: post #143

>I do tasks on three timescales: they either get done immediately, after a shamefully massive delay, or not at all. There’s little in-between. To anyone relating: that's an ADHD symptom. It falls under the umbrella of Executive Dysfunction[1]. I have been beating myself up for it all my life, and turns out there are many things that work differently for people with ADHD - and many things that help (from medication[2]…

I was very defensive when my wife said that I should consider being screened for ADHD, I have the exact experience you do (a the OP) around this stuff. The defensiveness was something that I sorted out, and looking back on things, so many of my "vices" were just self-medication for ADHD. They were mostly coping strategies (with the exception of some social vices). My adult diagnosis has been a game changer for me. I…

I describe the game change as going from hard mode to moderate/easy.

Same game, entirely different experience.

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#237

Post by omginternets » Sat, Jan 08, 2022, 1:53 AM UTC

romwell wrote: post #235

omginternets wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was recently diagnosed with ADHD. I am 34. Part of what took so long to get this diagnosed is that it is poorly named. I do not have a deficit of attention; in fact, I have extreme sustained attention [0]. If the symptoms described by the parent poster are causing you to suffer, please consider that it might be ADHD, and that ADHD does not necessarily manifest in the way it's name suggests it should. Please also co…

I could've written your comment word-for-word, to the extent that I did a double take and checked to make sure I didn't write it. Personally, I say that ADHD stands for Awfully Described Human Disorder for that exact reason. Many more thoughts on why it's poorly named here: https://romankogan.net/adhd/#Awfully%20Described%20Human%20D... (Someone complained I'm linking to my blog too much, but I haven't posted this li…

It's always nice to know you're not alone :)

I'll give your blog a read, thanks!

P.S.: "the thought of your friends not liking you makes you want to die" ... is that really an ADHD thing?? I thought that was a completely unrelated personality flaw.

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#238

Post by Apocryphon » Sat, Jan 08, 2022, 2:03 AM UTC

romwell wrote: post #225

300bps wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just want to point out - one can have symptoms of a disorder that don't rise to the level of a disorder. I have what OP describes like crazy, I beat myself up over it frequently and think I need to do better. Yet somehow I keep getting glowing reviews at work and even just got promoted without asking. So don't automatically think, "omg I do that too! I need medication." Start to worry if it has a substantial negative…

>I have what OP describes like crazy, I beat myself up over it frequently and think I need to do better. Yet somehow I keep getting glowing reviews at work and even just got promoted without asking. Hey, I have a PhD in mathematics, work experience in Microsoft and Google (among others), glowing reviews and all. And you know what would have been great? Getting treatment in high school, so that getting here would have…

I appreciate the effort behind this post a lot. Some of the life hacks seem helpful, and the some of the realizations are affirming. Thanks for sharing.

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#239

Post by romwell » Sat, Jan 08, 2022, 2:11 AM UTC

Mezzie wrote: post #170

thoughtpeddler wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't so quickly jump to "that's an ADHD symptom". I know many people inarguably not ADHD who exhibit similar task timescales. I don't want to discount the fact that this can be a hallmark symptom of ADHD for those that truly have/are ADHD. However, some part of this reaction is over-pathologization. It's increasingly accepted that ADHD is over-diagnosed [1] [2] [3], and I feel that this task timescale concept a…

It's definitely a sign of executive dysfunction, but executive dysfunction has causes that aren't ADHD. My executive function fluctuates with my anxiety, for example, and my MS has blown a giant hole in it.

I feel like the "after a shamefully massive delay" is a distinguishing factor for executive dysfunction caused by ADHD.

With other conditions, people seem to be at least capable of giving up on tasks that they have put aside for years. Not so with ADHD.

It took me 11 years to mail a package[1] one time, and I wish I was saying this figuratively.

The distinguishing thing here is that I did mail that gift to my friend after planning to get to it Real Soon Now™ year after year.

The mind-blowing part was sharing this experience in an ADHD group, and having dozens of people share the same exact story of taking years to mail a personal gift, feeling more shameful about it as time goes by.

A friend of mine asked me if it's still OK to mail a gift intended for a 2-year old 3 years after the birthday the gift was made for.

That was last year. She didn't mail it, and of course she still has it. That's quite ADHD.

[1] https://romankogan.net/adhd/#Eleven%20Years%20To%20Mail%20A%...

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#240

Post by beaconstudios » Sat, Jan 08, 2022, 2:18 AM UTC

PebblesRox wrote: post #233

beaconstudios wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100% this. I've commented similar elsewhere in the thread with a similar position - essentially, there's something you need to do that you're avoiding, some problem you need to resolve, and it's emotionally uncomfortable. Many of us have learned to avoid discomfort, but often times you need to go through it to make progress. It's best if you can minimise that discomfort in order to make headway, and simply breaking d…

I definitely agree. Procrastination is a feelings problem and it took me a long time to realize that. Often when I actually do the thing, I realize it is harder or feels worse than I was consciously feeling. It makes me think, "Oh yeah, no wonder I was putting this off. This is hard ." An example of this is decluttering, which sounds easy but in reality involves making a lot of difficult, often emotional decisions (i…

Yeah, hard agree - procrastination is about avoiding emotional pain. The saddest part is that we usually create the emotional pain for ourselves by pushing ourselves slavishly or not acting with kindness towards ourselves, and this leads to some kind of inner rebellion. Like TFA says they procrastinate when things are overdue and they guilt and pressure themselves over it. That's totally unnecessary, we don't need to be cruel to ourselves for making very human mistakes.

I'm in the middle of a big declutter at the moment (actually not only decluttering but moving rooms around) so I can totally relate. Remembering things you once wanted to do but ended up on a shelf, can really suck, especially if the conclusion is "actually I'm never going to do it, so might as well donate it".