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Procrastinatory Doom Loops

brennancolberg.com

211–220 of 290 posts

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#211
post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doing well at work is not an indication that you don’t have ADHD. Plenty of people with ADHD are perfectionists and overachievers, even those without medication. “Having a negative impact on your life” can be about more than just whether you perform well at work, it can be about how you feel about yourself and how you take care of yourself. I agree, medication is not always the answer. But that doesn’t mean it’s not…

Doing well at work is not an indication that you don’t have ADHD. Of course it is. Maybe if you changed "indication" to "guarantee" I would agree with you but as it is that sentence is objectively wrong. And of course there are other factors. I've definitely had symptoms of ADHD my entire life but once again that doesn't mean it rises to the level of a diagnosable disorder.

No that statement just isn’t true. ADHD in high IQ individuals frequently creates high performing individuals with very low self-esteem.

They succeed in complex environments tackling difficult problems, but still struggle to perform basic everyday chores. High performance at work, but consistently poor performance in other aspects of life is an indicator of possible ADHD.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/psychiatry-and-sleep...

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#212
post #209

>I do tasks on three timescales: they either get done immediately, after a shamefully massive delay, or not at all. There’s little in-between. To anyone relating: that's an ADHD symptom. It falls under the umbrella of Executive Dysfunction[1]. I have been beating myself up for it all my life, and turns out there are many things that work differently for people with ADHD - and many things that help (from medication[2]…

In my experience getting an adult ADHD diagnosis is a long process. Especially if you've never looked into it. After getting lost in the process last year. Re-attempting this year, i'm again stalled as they want my anxiety/depression scores to drop before testing for ADHD. So don't give up, when the system puts up walls. I assume this is due to the potential addiction side-affects for the drugs (stimulants) for non-A…

[deleted]

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#213

>I do tasks on three timescales: they either get done immediately, after a shamefully massive delay, or not at all. There’s little in-between. To anyone relating: that's an ADHD symptom. It falls under the umbrella of Executive Dysfunction[1]. I have been beating myself up for it all my life, and turns out there are many things that work differently for people with ADHD - and many things that help (from medication[2]…

I was recently diagnosed with ADHD. I am 34. Part of what took so long to get this diagnosed is that it is poorly named. I do not have a deficit of attention; in fact, I have extreme sustained attention [0].

If the symptoms described by the parent poster are causing you to suffer, please consider that it might be ADHD, and that ADHD does not necessarily manifest in the way it's name suggests it should.

Please also consider that lightweight treatment can drastically improve your quality-of-life. Stimulant therapy has provided immediate relief for me, like flipping a switch [1]. The best part is that I still enjoy the positive aspects of my ability to hyperfocus. Only now, my attention feels like a servant rather than a master.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperfocus

[1] I have a fairly moderate case of ADHD, so YMMV.

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an interesting observation: yes, I do get stuff done, in the end. But the path to it is usually long, torturous and leads along many places that weren't the destination along the way and plenty of that could be avoided. And quite a few of my achievements are probably the result of procrastinating on something else! I wonder how the real achievers (Fabrice Bellard?) deal with these sort of things. And also: wha…

I can relate to this a lot. The one silver lining of the shameful, interminable hell that is procrastination is the random skills that come out of it. I was so dysfunctional at my last job during covid-induced WFH I found time to completely redo my backyard, which included tasks like "research sod options, schedule a delivery, learn how to install it and lay it before it dies" which if someone officially assigned me…

This feels very relatable to me. Looking back, I'm pretty sure a few large projects spawned out of procrastinating on some other project I was supposed to be doing.

One was installing a tile floor in the kitchen, including lots of research, sistering joists, ripping up the old floor, etc etc. And replacing the kitchen range, which required a range hood, which required some cabinet mods. Lots of interesting new DIY skills learned in that project.

And then last year, building a video editor, instead of recording some videos for a course.

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#215

I spent about a third of 2021 more or less consumed by this phenomenon. In my case it was triggered by job searching: I quit my existing position, intending to do a leisurely search over a few months... and then avoided nearly everything related to the job search for over four months. (While still experiencing a ton of stress as a result of constant anxiety and guilt about it.) Once I actually started, I landed an am…

I can relate to working with others. So far in the WFH pandemic I've been mostly all right, but I work so much better in a team, with someone actually telling me what to do, what they expect, instead of me having that responsibility myself. I'm guessing it's a 'subservient' personality trait of sorts. Others are 'natural' leaders, good at keeping an overview of what needs to be done and distributing that. Others are…

I'm glad you're having a positive experience.

I really like my current company because it's small but people have well-defined wheelhouses. I don't really have to think too hard except when I need to defer to more experienced engineers.

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an interesting observation: yes, I do get stuff done, in the end. But the path to it is usually long, torturous and leads along many places that weren't the destination along the way and plenty of that could be avoided. And quite a few of my achievements are probably the result of procrastinating on something else! I wonder how the real achievers (Fabrice Bellard?) deal with these sort of things. And also: wha…

I can relate to this a lot. The one silver lining of the shameful, interminable hell that is procrastination is the random skills that come out of it. I was so dysfunctional at my last job during covid-induced WFH I found time to completely redo my backyard, which included tasks like "research sod options, schedule a delivery, learn how to install it and lay it before it dies" which if someone officially assigned me…

That hits way too close to comfort.

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can relate to this a lot. The one silver lining of the shameful, interminable hell that is procrastination is the random skills that come out of it. I was so dysfunctional at my last job during covid-induced WFH I found time to completely redo my backyard, which included tasks like "research sod options, schedule a delivery, learn how to install it and lay it before it dies" which if someone officially assigned me…

This feels very relatable to me. Looking back, I'm pretty sure a few large projects spawned out of procrastinating on some other project I was supposed to be doing. One was installing a tile floor in the kitchen, including lots of research, sistering joists, ripping up the old floor, etc etc. And replacing the kitchen range, which required a range hood, which required some cabinet mods. Lots of interesting new DIY sk…

You take it to the next level :) Arguably, pianojacq.com was built so that I could put off practicing piano.

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#218

This is an oldie so many may already know it. But always relevant reading for my fellow procrastinators. Part 1: https://waitbutwhy.com/2013/10/why-procrastinators-procrasti... Part 2: https://waitbutwhy.com/2013/11/how-to-beat-procrastination.h... Bonus: https://waitbutwhy.com/2015/03/procrastination-matrix.html Highly recommended! While I still procrastinate this understanding has helped me control my urge tememdou…

I found myself relating to these particular three articles a lot . Then, last year, I have learned about ADHD - and, to my surprise, realized I'm a textbook example. There are a lot of resources available for us, and ways to do things differently. If you relate to WaitButWhy, check this out: https://romankogan.net/adhd/ And if you find yourself scrolling and relating - there's a good change your life will drastically…

I just want to say that I think it's awesome that you are sharing your personal experience with ADHD here. The stigma around mental health does no one any good, and too often when ADHD comes up on HN, the loudest voices are people dismissing ADHD as a boogeyman that's over-diagnosed. It's important for people to know that ADHD is real and too often it isn't even diagnosed until adulthood.

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#219
post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So to mean it literally, it changed some literal game you were playing. What game did it change and how?

My game was: - follow my curiosity - take advantage of times when my curiosity and focus aligned with work - manage the anxiety that came as a consequence of focusing on things I shouldn't be. My new game is: - channel my curiosity to solve relevant problems (get distracted sometimes, but not near as much as I used to) - since I am more in control of my own focus, my anxiety is dramatically reduced, so I don't requir…

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Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#220

>I do tasks on three timescales: they either get done immediately, after a shamefully massive delay, or not at all. There’s little in-between. To anyone relating: that's an ADHD symptom. It falls under the umbrella of Executive Dysfunction[1]. I have been beating myself up for it all my life, and turns out there are many things that work differently for people with ADHD - and many things that help (from medication[2]…

I wouldn't so quickly jump to "that's an ADHD symptom". I know many people inarguably not ADHD who exhibit similar task timescales. I don't want to discount the fact that this can be a hallmark symptom of ADHD for those that truly have/are ADHD. However, some part of this reaction is over-pathologization. It's increasingly accepted that ADHD is over-diagnosed [1] [2] [3], and I feel that this task timescale concept a…

I'm not usually someone to complain about a comment or opinion, but this conflicts so much with my experience that I feel compelled to respond. I was diagnosed about 1.5 years ago, in my 30's.

I would argue that yes, "that's an ADHD symptom". One symptom does not make a diagnosis, but if you recognize yourself definitely do your research and consult a professional. Especially for the many people you know who show similar behaviour.

It took me a long time to convince myself I might have ADHD, and during and even after the diagnosis I still had my doubts. Looking back, it was incredibly obvious if you recognize the symptoms. I'm still amazed I got this far in life without professional help, no doubt largely due to my supportive environment.

I would _strongly_ argue that it is not accepted that ADHD is overdiagnosed. I've done a quick read through of the studies you linked, imho none of them actually support the claim of overdiagnosis.

[1] "Overdiagnosis is defined here as occurring when a person is clinically diagnosed with a condition, but the net effect of the diagnosis is unfavorable. Misdiagnosis (when a child is incorrectly labeled with an ADHD diagnosis instead of an alternative condition) and false-positive diagnosis (when a subsequent clinical encounter reveals a wrong initial diagnosis) are not the focus of this article."

Unfavorable here is:

- medication can have side effects

- it might be used as an excuse to stop trying/caring

- there's a social stigma

[2] This metastudy is about mental disorders in general, mostly referencing studies before 2000. The only study supporting the overdiagnosed claim is a german 2012 study; https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22201328/. They sent case vignettes to 1000 psychologists, psychiatrists, and social workers. For the case vignettes which matched several (but not all) ADHD criteria (DSM-IV), 16,7% gave a diagnosis, and 2x more often for boys vs girls.

This proves that the therapists did not strictly followed the criteria, but does that mean that they were wrong? This is no simple blood test. They're asking someone to give a diagnosis based on a 3rd party report of a patient.

I remember in my case there was a computerized quiz with easy answers and long artificial delays, to test if you can stay focused on boring tasks and measure your response time. If you give me this test on my pc, I will very quickly switch to another window or take out my phone. But in an external environment as part of an expensive test I specifially asked and waited a long time for? Sure, I'll be polite and keep staring at the screen. The screen was an old tft by the way, with a crappy unshielded vga cable picking up interference, causing ghosting issues in the different colour channels. If I lifted the cable hanging under the desk with my leg, I could almost make it go away.

Anyway, all of this was reduced to a number (my average response time), and ultimately to a boolean (can stay focussed). It's not an exact science.

Also, maybe the criteria are wrong? Or at least incomplete? Prior to DSM-V, ADHD and ASD were mutually exclusive. That seems absurd now, but the 5th edition only came out less than 9 years ago (may 2013), so after the above study. The DSM is "only" a consensus of a group of professionals. Over time our understanding of things change, and that consensus might change. And over a longer time, some of those professionals (and maybe a few new ones) come together and try and update the DSM.

[3] This article raises the question, but does not actually claim ADHD is overdiagnosed. Sure, some people might seek stimulants, and might successfully fake their way to a diagnosis. But that's a problem not exclusive to ADHD. Diagnosing ADHD is not straightforward, and should be done by experienced professionals.

I suspect there is a large pushback in the USA on stimulant use as a result of the opioid crisis. But for the people who actually need the medication the process of actually getting it is already difficult enough, and should be made easier, not harder.

I'm open to having my mind changed, but so far I have not seen any evidence that ADHD is overdiagnosed, let alone that overdiagnosing is increasing.

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