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Pentagon and CIA shaped thousands of Hollywood movies into effective propaganda

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Re: Pentagon and CIA shaped thousands of Hollywood movies into effective propaganda

#531

Post by windsignaling »

1_player wrote: post #169
windsignaling wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China has always done this and it is always comically obvious. The propaganda coming from the US against the Chinese is more subtle and convincing. It's scary not only because of how good it is, but because people here don't even realize they are being manipulated.

Perhaps you think the US propaganda is more subtle because it's very similar to your world view, as a member of the Western world. I bet a Chinese citizen would find the Hollywood propaganda hilariously over the top, though don't forget that the US propaganda is so widespread it already has infected everybody, including the common Chinese citizen, for decades.

I considered that, but upon deeper thought, it is not true.

Consider the examples elsewhere in this thread.

The Chinese propaganda is the Chinese soldier essentially doing an unrealistic magic trick.

American propaganda is often in the form of omission or social stature.

Consider the last time you saw an Asian male in a Hollywood production (which are few and far between to begin with) that wasn't:

a) a kung-fu caricature

b) the joke

Re: Pentagon and CIA shaped thousands of Hollywood movies into effective propaganda

#532

Post by windsignaling »

avgcorrection wrote: post #246
windsignaling wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China has always done this and it is always comically obvious. The propaganda coming from the US against the Chinese is more subtle and convincing. It's scary not only because of how good it is, but because people here don't even realize they are being manipulated.

Hah! Our enemy’s propaganda is such foolish nonsense—no one would fall for that! However, I am quite concerned for the little people of our enemy’s nation, because our propaganda is so subtle and intelligent…

In fact, I've already considered that my perspective could be due to my own environment and social norms.

But consider the examples elsewhere in this thread.

The Chinese propaganda is the Chinese soldier essentially doing an unrealistic magic trick with very obviously over the top body language.

Body language and non-verbal cues are universal, doesn't matter what country you're from.

American propaganda is often in the form of omission or social stature.

Consider the last time you saw an Asian male in a Hollywood production (which are few and far between to begin with) that wasn't:

a) a kung-fu caricature

b) the joke

It is indeed more subtle. It's hard to notice something when it's simply not there.

Re: Pentagon and CIA shaped thousands of Hollywood movies into effective propaganda

#533

Post by windsignaling »

mrkstu wrote: post #411
windsignaling wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"China bad" is one of the primary goals of western propaganda. Start looking out for any online discussion involving anti-Asian racism / attacks, the housing crisis, etc. and you'll see posts like "but what about the CPP?" and "aren't Asians the most racist against blacks?" https://twitter.com/alanrmacleod/status/1474350856476762115?...

Equating anti-CCP sentiment with anti Asian propaganda is gaslighting. That’s like anti-Putin sentiment being equal to being racist against Slavs.

The point is that many speak as if anti-CCP sentiment -justifies- anything which is anti-Asian.

In what way is "but CCP bad" an appropriate response to "another old Chinese lady brutally attacked on the street"?

Also bold of us to assume the media is honest about the CCP when it is not even honest about domestic politicians.

Re: Pentagon and CIA shaped thousands of Hollywood movies into effective propaganda

#534

Post by stefantalpalaru »

throwaway4good wrote: post #122
anovikov wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What was bad about it? The idea was to make overland transport through Cambodian territory (which U.S. did not want to outright invade) to supply Vietcong as difficult as possible. Vietnam war may have been brutal, and eventually lost, but it disincentivised everyone else in the Southeast Asia from turning to Communism, so in the end it was a net benefit for the free world.

You are getting downvoted but if you wrote something similar about the Korean war, you would probably be supported. There is a strange perspective around all the US-led wars; all of them were/are good and justified except some how the Vietnam war ...

[dead]

Re: Pentagon and CIA shaped thousands of Hollywood movies into effective propaganda

#535

Post by ashwagary »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #433
ashwagary wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

"Woke" is a word, which describes/refers to a concept. The use of the word may be culturally and temporally specific (and that usage, like all use of language, may change over time), but the concept is one found in many different cultures and communities across time and space - put simply and broadly, the notion that one needs to "wake up" or "awaken" to what is actually happening. There are ways of describing this i…

White supremacists are specifically attacking the 'black liberation' definition because it gained a worrying amount of traction among the global youth and the ruling class is not happy about that.

It's not a coincidence that the establishment in other major genocidal powers (ZA, AU, and UK) jumped on the anti-woke train early on to assist the US in fighting/redefining the concept.

Reminds me of a quote from a history prof, "The main problem with black history is it exposes too much of the fraud in white history... "

Re: Pentagon and CIA shaped thousands of Hollywood movies into effective propaganda

#536

Post by smsm42 »

throwaway829 wrote: post #527
smsm42 wrote: post #517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> psychological methods learned from Guantanamo and CIA Black Sites, What would those be? If CIA and such has some special "psychological methods", how comes they never actually used it to achieve anything related to their direct job? I mean, let's embrace the conspiracy and assume they have these spectacular methods that can make anybody think anything and they are willing to use it on anybody, including Americans.…

There's nothing magical about it. All that's needed is control of the media your target consumes. "Manufacturing Consent" by Edward S. Herman and Noam Chomsky covers how this works. The Taliban consume the Koran. They reject most forms of mass media. Thus it's very hard to manipulate them into a western lifestyle. The alternative would be to find their "opinion leaders" and coerce them. Anyway, it's naïve to think th…

It'd be naive if there were any indications of "these techniques" existing beyond extremely vague hand-wavy conspiracy implications. Just throwing out the name of Chomsky's book is not an actual evidence of anything. Tell me which specifically Gitmo-CIA-black-site-derived techniques you mean. You don't have to spell out the whole Chomsky, just name a couple, 2-3 sentences would be enough.

Re: Pentagon and CIA shaped thousands of Hollywood movies into effective propaganda

#537

Post by ashwagary »

kbelder wrote: post #501
ashwagary wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

'Woke' _primarily_ means roused from sleep. Every other usage is metaphoric drift from that. Casual and false accusations of racism are as wrong as racism itself.

>'Woke' _primarily_ means roused from sleep.

>Every other usage is metaphoric drift from that.

The global cultural influence of African Americans is massive, possibly bigger than any other single group in the US, even after centuries of gatekeeping. A notable style trait of Ebonics is purposely butchering English grammar.

Are you claiming you would use the past tense of 'wake' as the present tense (as in 'stay woke') without African Americans popularizing it? This may be the strangest claim I've heard recently.

BTW, redefining established civil rights concepts to undermine the people and movements tied to them is extremely racist...

Re: Pentagon and CIA shaped thousands of Hollywood movies into effective propaganda

#538

Post by imwillofficial »

cycomanic wrote: post #158
imwillofficial wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you accept the facts as presented in history books without critical review, sure.

I'm not sure how to read this, are you denying that the holocaust happened? I grew up during a time when quite a few witnesses were still alive and I did talk to some, no need to read a history book (although it definitely helps your overall formation as a reasonable person).

I’m questioning the good vs evil narrative. In my lifetime I’ve seen it used to lay waste to entire countries, and I helped do it. I’m a little more skeptical now.

Re: Pentagon and CIA shaped thousands of Hollywood movies into effective propaganda

#539

Post by throwawaylinux »

SuoDuanDao wrote: post #470
TaylorAlexander wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I asked because whenever I hear about someone complaining of “wokeism” they’re complaining about things that I think are good. Giving black actors roles in areas normally dominated by white actors? That’s awesome! But whenever this happens loads of people online will claim that is “wokeism”. Representation for gay, lesbian, queer, and trans people in media? Wow that’s great! Many complain this is “wokeism”. Recognizi…

I've been thinking about this and it happens I do have an answer. Wokeism is in part an ideology and a set of political goals, but it is also a means of competition. It is the foundation for a system of verbal duelling that determines who gets the limited number of spots at the top of our hierarchy. Like the Edwardian's preoccupation with gossip and scandal or the Aztec's ritual sacrifice of losing ullamaliztli playe…

This is pretty interesting but I don't think the evidence is very strong. Being the leader of the Canadian Green Party is not "elite". Green parties around the world are going through these upheavals only because they allowed and encouraged this wokeism, that's what they want and that's what they get.

Whereas look at the actual positions of political power. Biden/Harris -- they're both horrific in many wokeness metrics. Rich old privileged straight white, war monger, sexual assault allegations, top cop whose record on imprisoning black people is problematic, descendant of slave owner, and of course staunch supporters of Israel just to name a few (I'm not saying these are fair or valid criticisms but it's all prime woke ammunition).

Yet somehow it doesn't affect them. For all the dueling and competition among the elites (or at least their political representatives) you're imagining, very little wokeism was used against them as far as I could see. They also required very little verbal intelligence, compassion, or tolerance.

What they had is an elite and their corporations who consolidated around them and protect them, don't ask the wrong questions and don't bring out the woke attack dogs. The opposite of dueling and infighting.

And in your last paragraph you're acting like the systems are set up by (or at least is able to be changed by) and for the benefit of people who are not the rich elites. The evidence points to the opposite. It is clearly a tool to divide the underclass and insulate the ruling class.

Re: Pentagon and CIA shaped thousands of Hollywood movies into effective propaganda

#540

Post by 4ggr0 »

throwawaylinux wrote: post #447
4ggr0 wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me the biggest red flags are when people start talking about wokeism, is when you ask them about it they then continue to elaborate that they mean "communism", "lgbt-agendas" etc. 99% of people who complain about that kind of wokeism sound like alt-righters to me, or at least like people who parrot what the alt-right says without being aware of it.

That's not what woke means though. You don't let trolls dictate what you understand of any other words, do you? Woke in this context means insincere and/or hypocritical support of liberal causes, as wikipedia and urban dictionary clearly list as definitions.

> as wikipedia and urban dictionary clearly list as definitions.

Wikipedia absolutely does not list it as a hypocritical or insincere thing. Wikipedia defines it as "alert to perceived racial prejudice and discrimination"

The Wikipedia definition you quote funnily enough is the one I described, "Opponents of progressive social movements often use the term mockingly or sarcastically, implying that 'wokeness' is an insincere form of performative activism."

So you're confusing me quite a bit, first you tell me I shouldn't let trolls dictate what words mean, only for then doing exactly that yourself, citing the definition trolls and opponents use.

And another thing - Urban Dictionary can certainly be used to get to know what online slang, memes mean. Using it as an official definition for a word is a bit wrong though, seeing as how UD is more about tongue-in-cheek joke definitions.

So in the end, I frankly don't really know what you want to tell me, not meaning this in a rude way.

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