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Pentagon and CIA shaped thousands of Hollywood movies into effective propaganda

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Re: Pentagon and CIA shaped thousands of Hollywood movies into effective propaganda

#511

Post by imwillofficial »

camillomiller wrote: post #289
imwillofficial wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, you mean American movies staring Americans, for American audiences WERE ABOUT AMERICANS?! Inconceivable! I’m currently visiting DC, and I hate to break it to you. Every nationality, in any country, forms their own bubbles if they can. People gravitate to what they know.

American movies are the only ones I can think of that tell GLOBAL stories from a purely American-only perspective. Local American stories are of course great! I love movies made by Americans who tell me American stories. Apart from that they all suffer from some degree of America as the savior syndrome, or as I like to call it “World Series” syndrome. Only a country like America could call “World” something that is p…

On this I agree entirely.

Re: Pentagon and CIA shaped thousands of Hollywood movies into effective propaganda

#512

Post by 14 »

anaccountexists wrote: post #250
14 wrote: post #45

I am very interested to ready the comments and see where the votes land. From my experience any time you criticize the US here on HN you are heavily criticized or downvoted. Sometimes after making a valid point. I have learned to not take it personally and have always told myself I am sure there are state actors from many nations on many forums trying to persuade a perspective. If someone wants to downvote but not pr…

Really? I think you can make a generic “US bad, good” and you’ll get a cheering chorus from HN, Reddit, Twitter, etc. on… almost any topic these days. As a US citizen I just don’t really care anymore, I sometimes get a good chuckle every time someone tells me I’m oppressed or living in a hellhole. I’m happy where I live and though I recognize there’s faults and I do try to improve them where I can. Maybe it’s state a…

I don’t know much about Europe or other countries so haven’t made many critical comments towards those countries. But when I’ve been critical about the US, my neighbouring country I’ve always had a lot of flack for it here on HN. But you are right life is too short so I say my piece and not worry if people vote down or up I am just trying to be part of the conversation.

Re: Pentagon and CIA shaped thousands of Hollywood movies into effective propaganda

#513

Post by quacked »

simplestats wrote: post #491
quacked wrote: post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fox News in the US. I agree mostly with your point that the film industry and the majority of print and cable news falls in line with progressive/leftist/"woke" talking points, but Fox is an absolutely massive propaganda vehicle with dozens of millions of daily viewers. They regularly promote trans-exclusive views.

I'd say Fox exists as a reaction against the left-leaning bias of media. If audiences want anti-woke content all day (or conspiracy theories, or commie-stomping superagents, or...) I don't think a business that chases ratings and profits by giving it to them is fairly described as propaganda. Entertainment is commonly centered on the fears of its audience.

I don't think there's any difference in most entertainment and propaganda. The "official" definition of "propaganda" is:

> Information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view.

I would say that almost all entertainment is of a biased nature and is used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view.

Pamphlets about the end of the world and Christianity--propaganda. The Glenn Beck show--propaganda. NYT editorials about defunding the police--propaganda. Tucker Carlson--propaganda. Joe Biden's Twitter account--propaganda. Portrayals of white men as problematic or evil in Netflix shows--propaganda. Portrayals of black men as problematic or evil in archaic books, shows, movies, etc.--propaganda.

Edit:

I realize I sound a little unhinged. Let me try to be more clear about my point.

If media is deployed with the intent to promote or distribute a worldview, I think it is propaganda. Fox News meets the definition of propaganda because it promotes the worldview "cable news, specifically Fox News, is a source of authority". The fact that it is entertainment is not relevant to its status as propaganda; it gains that status by having a perfect propaganda-like effect on the public. The content of the media that's consumed by the public is less important than what the public believes about the sources putting out the media, and what authority the public lends to the media it consumes.

Here is an article by an anonymous psychiatrist who writes a great deal about how the effect of media is less related to the content, and more related to how media dissemination of information infects and shapes its viewers' model of reality. They are taught how to learn, rather than what to learn, and the how always includes "more listening to the source putting out the information".

https://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2010/04/im_not_the_one_you_s...

Re: Pentagon and CIA shaped thousands of Hollywood movies into effective propaganda

#514

Post by goodpoint »

MrYellowP wrote: post #249
goodpoint wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you wrote is true, but it's astonishing how people tolerate having an industrial production of propaganda (since WW2) in what should be a democracy.

Democracy and propaganda aren't mutually exclusive. Plus, the US isn't a democracy. In fact, most countries banging the democracy- propaganda -horn aren't actually democracies. Austria, for example, is a Republic. Democracy is just a smokescreen.

> ... aren't actually democracies. Austria, for example, is a Republic

"republic" and "democracy" are in no way mutually exclusive terms.

On the contrary, the overlap very often. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic for a definition.

Re: Pentagon and CIA shaped thousands of Hollywood movies into effective propaganda

#515

Post by stackedinserter »

dgb23 wrote: post #414
stackedinserter wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Wokeism" is just another way to practice racism, sexism, limit freedoms and to divide society in very damaging way. It eventually will lead us into tyranny and all these bad thing that you have mentioned.

In this case we probably shouldn't distract a discussion about war propaganda with pointing out wokeism.

We pointing out aggressive, divisive and intolerant way of thinking that always lead us into bad things.

Re: Pentagon and CIA shaped thousands of Hollywood movies into effective propaganda

#516

Post by simplestats »

quacked wrote: post #513
simplestats wrote: post #491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say Fox exists as a reaction against the left-leaning bias of media. If audiences want anti-woke content all day (or conspiracy theories, or commie-stomping superagents, or...) I don't think a business that chases ratings and profits by giving it to them is fairly described as propaganda. Entertainment is commonly centered on the fears of its audience.

I don't think there's any difference in most entertainment and propaganda. The "official" definition of "propaganda" is: > Information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view. I would say that almost all entertainment is of a biased nature and is used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view. Pamphlets about…

Yeah I can certainly agree that some would use a broad definition of propaganda.

But it's a very loaded word. One should avoid using loaded words where a less emotional description is applicable. One could as well argue that the use of loaded words is propaganda itself.

Re: Pentagon and CIA shaped thousands of Hollywood movies into effective propaganda

#517

Post by smsm42 »

Threeve303 wrote: post #340
34679 wrote: post #121

>The film also notes that the United States has laws against propagandizing the U.S. public, which might make such a disclosure a confession of a crime. I would add that since 1976, the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights has required that “Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law.” That changed in 2013: >The U.S. government's mammoth broadcasting arm has begun the "unleashing of thousands o…

Imagine you have a tech industry that merged with madison avenue along with psychological methods learned from Guantanamo and CIA Black Sites, and you wanted to build a societal manipulation machine, otherwise known as propaganda. Makes me wonder if there is any relation between the changes mentioned here and some of what the social media infrastructure has been used to do.

> psychological methods learned from Guantanamo and CIA Black Sites,

What would those be? If CIA and such has some special "psychological methods", how comes they never actually used it to achieve anything related to their direct job? I mean, let's embrace the conspiracy and assume they have these spectacular methods that can make anybody think anything and they are willing to use it on anybody, including Americans. Why won't they use it on Taliban or Iranians or Hezbollah and make them love America and crave McDonalds burgers and Starbucks coffee? Why didn't they use it for anything, even if just to get promoted and look good on the annual report?

I think much more realistic hypothesis would be that they have no magic spectacular "psychological methods" at all and are as (in)competent in persuasion as a random politician is, and are forced to muddle through with what they got, and they need "black sites" so that public wouldn't actually learn how low their success rate is and how lucky we are because their opponents aren't exactly geniuses either.

Re: Pentagon and CIA shaped thousands of Hollywood movies into effective propaganda

#518

Post by b112 »

xcambar wrote: post #509
xcambar wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intelligence services are not a random subset of humanity, though. As one of us two seem to have a definitive argument, I guess we'll have to stick to our beliefs for now. I'm more curious now to know how much of it all was planned than I was before this conversation started.

As *none [...]

I dunno, I've worked with gov departments here (Canada), and sometimes there is planning, but even so, it seems seldom well thought out.

Things get done, but almost in spite of the planning.

I certainly wouldn't mind knowing too.

(edit: I only get called when planning fails, or things have gone off the rails, now that I think about it, so maybe an unfair opinion.)

Re: Pentagon and CIA shaped thousands of Hollywood movies into effective propaganda

#519

Post by quacked »

34679 wrote: post #121

>The film also notes that the United States has laws against propagandizing the U.S. public, which might make such a disclosure a confession of a crime. I would add that since 1976, the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights has required that “Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law.” That changed in 2013: >The U.S. government's mammoth broadcasting arm has begun the "unleashing of thousands o…

Are there any examples of these radio and TV programs that are openly controlled by a propaganda arm of the government?

Re: Pentagon and CIA shaped thousands of Hollywood movies into effective propaganda

#520

Post by smsm42 »

bart_spoon wrote: post #471
bgroat wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm holding out for a Breaking Bad style show about a software consultant who realizes how much money they can make by pivoting to running a malware ransom ring

As others have suggested, Mr. Robot isn't quite this but it's close, and extremely well made. One of the best TV shows ever in my opinion.

I'd argue it lays "evil corporations are evil" a bit too thick, and the ending IMHO is way too overwrought, but it's a pretty well made show.
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