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Procrastinatory Doom Loops

brennancolberg.com

221–230 of 290 posts

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#221
post #58

Usually, I solve this by making it the only thing on my list that day, and clearing as many hurdles as possible the day before. This can mean anything from preliminary googling to cleaning up my workspace and taking out the required tools. This means that on the fateful morning, it’s the first thing I do after making coffee. No checking emails, no small chores, just a shower, coffee and getting to work. I read somewh…

There's a book called "Eat That Frog". The main advice, as the title of the book suggests, whatever the biggest most-important task, regardless of how unpleasant (akin to eating a frog), just do it first and do nothing else until it's done.

Works for some things ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#222

>I do tasks on three timescales: they either get done immediately, after a shamefully massive delay, or not at all. There’s little in-between. To anyone relating: that's an ADHD symptom. It falls under the umbrella of Executive Dysfunction[1]. I have been beating myself up for it all my life, and turns out there are many things that work differently for people with ADHD - and many things that help (from medication[2]…

I wouldn't so quickly jump to "that's an ADHD symptom". I know many people inarguably not ADHD who exhibit similar task timescales. I don't want to discount the fact that this can be a hallmark symptom of ADHD for those that truly have/are ADHD. However, some part of this reaction is over-pathologization. It's increasingly accepted that ADHD is over-diagnosed [1] [2] [3], and I feel that this task timescale concept a…

Do you know of any research testing whether ADHD can increase when people are required to focus on one thing (like a computer) or stay in one place (like a desk) all day?

I've always wondered if there could be an environmental link to the situation people have to operate in, and certain mental pathologies.

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#223
post #44

I had this issue with my first software job right out of college. I was unproductive for weeks, just due to culture shock and (shamefully) malaise. The procrastination snowballed. Luckily a fellow engineer eventually noticed, sat down with me, and recognized exactly what was going on. In the kindest way possible, he sat down behind me and basically made me finally start my next project. He stayed there with me for th…

FYI this is called "Body Doubling" in the ADHD world, and there are services offering this.

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#224
post #201
post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What has changed for you since being screened?

Primarily: medication Secondarily: being able to have a short hand category for looking up strategies to handle my own challenges and finding a sympathetic community of people with eerily similar challenges. The medication has been surprising. I have all my life thought that I had anxiety. So I did various compensating behaviors to manage the anxiety. I now know that I was anxious because of my ADHD behaviors, and ad…

Thank you for the interesting perspective! You and I sound fairly similar in terms of symptoms.

For the anxiety I went with a book that someone recommended to me on HN called, "Learned Optimism". I went from having moderate to severe anxiety for decades to pretty much zero. It's work, but was tremendously worth it.

I have spent time on solving procrastination with less success. Most notable was reading, "Solving the Procrastination Puzzle". For me the most successful technique is "Just get started". I think I have two issues that cause me to not start on things: 1) before it's started, it's a perfect little idea. after starting, it leads to imperfect compromises to get it done. 2) I fear it will be harder than it actually is. "Just get started" pushes through both of these for me.

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#225
post #167

>I do tasks on three timescales: they either get done immediately, after a shamefully massive delay, or not at all. There’s little in-between. To anyone relating: that's an ADHD symptom. It falls under the umbrella of Executive Dysfunction[1]. I have been beating myself up for it all my life, and turns out there are many things that work differently for people with ADHD - and many things that help (from medication[2]…

Just want to point out - one can have symptoms of a disorder that don't rise to the level of a disorder. I have what OP describes like crazy, I beat myself up over it frequently and think I need to do better. Yet somehow I keep getting glowing reviews at work and even just got promoted without asking. So don't automatically think, "omg I do that too! I need medication." Start to worry if it has a substantial negative…

>I have what OP describes like crazy, I beat myself up over it frequently and think I need to do better. Yet somehow I keep getting glowing reviews at work and even just got promoted without asking.

Hey, I have a PhD in mathematics, work experience in Microsoft and Google (among others), glowing reviews and all.

And you know what would have been great? Getting treatment in high school, so that getting here would have been a much more peaceful process, without so much pain, beating myself up, and being chronically depressed because of it.

Professional success is not the only metric in life. Beating oneself up endlessly can get to you too. Understanding how my brain works allows me to live a happier life.

>So don't automatically think, "omg I do that too! I need medication." Start to worry if it has a substantial negative impact on your life.

Well, of course. And medication doesn't work for everyone (does nothing for about 20% of people, IIRC, and many others don't enjoy the side effects). There are, however, many other things that do help - from lifestyle changes to body doubling.

For me, these little things had an immense impact on my well-being:

* It's OK to have 4 pairs of scissors to keep them where I use them instead of looking for them each time. Minimalism is not ADHD-friendly.

* It's also OK to have cabinets full of hobby supplies that I come back to once every few years. "If you don't use it for 3 years, throw it out" is not how ADHD works. Time is a dark matter for ADHD folks.

* I can't reliably estimate time, especially the time it takes me to do things. I can improve my estimates by asking other people to estimate time. If it's important, I should trust judgement of other people when it comes to time, even if my brain tells me that surely, it's feasible to do X things in Y time.

* I will not remember where my phone is, and it's OK. I can keep Google Home Hub, and tell it to find my phone. As long as it has power, it will ring.

* For that matter, the best phone for me is the one with immense battery life (currently, Moto G Power with its 3-day battery, but I'll gladly take a 7-day brick). Because I will forget to charge it every day, and it will be nothing more than a silicon slab when I need it the most otherwise.

* It's OK to buy a gadget/tool/thing just to perform a task, because it adds novelty. Consumerism be damned, I can give things away on Craigslist and make someone's day - or I can acquire a hobby. I bought a bullet smoker on sale last week on a whim, and now have five pounds of smoked fish in my fridge (OK, that might have been an overkill). I bought a slow cooker, a toaster oven, an air fryer, an instant pot, and a cast iron skillet to make cooking more fun - all of them get used a lot.

* It's OK to temporarily lose interest in a hobby I'm passionate for. It doesn't indicate a lack of passion of interest. It's just ADHD.

* To do a boring/tedious task, I need to do a fun thing first, and then ride that momentum to victory. "Rewarding" myself with a fun activity for completing a tedious/productive one simply doesn't work: I neither complete the task, nor get to do the "reward" activity. The ideal way is to incorporate the reward into doing: cooking, but getting to use a new implement. Coding, but only using list comprehensions instead of loops. Being on a lookout for something novel to island-hop from task to task without strain.

* I am not effective in open-floor layouts sitting next to colleagues, but very productive in a library/coworking environments. People that work on the same thing (especially if we bond over it) are a distraction, and added guilt when I'm not productive. People working alongside me add accountability without judgement, and enhance my productivity. That's called body doubling, and it works even if it's over Zoom (as long as people don't talk to each other). There are Discord study groups, and Zoom sessions at https://adhdactually.com that facilitate that.

* My storage cabinets either have transparent doors, or no doors at all (IKEA Kallax cube organizers); when using cube organizers, transparent containers are the best. It's optimal for my brain, even if it doesn't look best to some.

* I often need to stay up late, later than everyone else in the house, and it's OK. I stopped forcing myself to go to bed early when I don't feel like sleeping. The AM hours after everyone has gone to bed have a valuable peacefulness to them, where I can focus on things that I might not get to do otherwise.

* If I feel an urge to do the Boring But Necessary Thing, I act on it immediately, even if it's disrupting the plans or is at an unusual time. Cleaning at 2AM? Cooking at midnight? Mailing that package when I was planning to clean? Whatever, I need to ride that wave, because who knows when it'll come next.

And so on, and so on. ADHD lifehacks are different than neurotypical lifehacks. Just being aware that they exist helps a ton.

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#226

I spent about a third of 2021 more or less consumed by this phenomenon. In my case it was triggered by job searching: I quit my existing position, intending to do a leisurely search over a few months... and then avoided nearly everything related to the job search for over four months. (While still experiencing a ton of stress as a result of constant anxiety and guilt about it.) Once I actually started, I landed an am…

Ugh I feel you, had same situation, except I can’t live with my gf due all the border closures and lockdowns so it was extra hard for me. You should consider yourself very lucky and privileged.

I do - and I sympathize, because I was living 600 miles away from my girlfriend before the pandemic, and it was everything going remote that let me move to be near her.

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#227
post #160

I spent about a third of 2021 more or less consumed by this phenomenon. In my case it was triggered by job searching: I quit my existing position, intending to do a leisurely search over a few months... and then avoided nearly everything related to the job search for over four months. (While still experiencing a ton of stress as a result of constant anxiety and guilt about it.) Once I actually started, I landed an am…

I've been dealing with overcoming some severe procrastination issues again. I was doing some "Spring" cleaning over the last few weeks and came across several books I had bought and read in the past. I picked up, The Now Habit[0], and opened it to page 103 (of my version/copy). Below is a bit of a wall of text with I assume several typos. Please forgive me, I read the following excerpt out loud and used speech to tex…

I've owned The Now Habit since 2011 - unread, which gets funnier every year.

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#229
post #44

I had this issue with my first software job right out of college. I was unproductive for weeks, just due to culture shock and (shamefully) malaise. The procrastination snowballed. Luckily a fellow engineer eventually noticed, sat down with me, and recognized exactly what was going on. In the kindest way possible, he sat down behind me and basically made me finally start my next project. He stayed there with me for th…

Eventually that person couldn't be standing behind you making sure you were doing your work and at that point how did you make sure you were being productive?

I don't have a great answer for that, as it's still something I occasionally struggle with. I try to pick work where I can closely collaborate with another person. It sounds silly and maybe a bit childish, but just knowing someone else will be happy/proud when I finish a task helps a lot.

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#230
post #221
post #58

Usually, I solve this by making it the only thing on my list that day, and clearing as many hurdles as possible the day before. This can mean anything from preliminary googling to cleaning up my workspace and taking out the required tools. This means that on the fateful morning, it’s the first thing I do after making coffee. No checking emails, no small chores, just a shower, coffee and getting to work. I read somewh…

There's a book called "Eat That Frog". The main advice, as the title of the book suggests, whatever the biggest most-important task, regardless of how unpleasant (akin to eating a frog), just do it first and do nothing else until it's done. Works for some things ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

This tends to lead to doing nothing for a long time.
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