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Procrastinatory Doom Loops

brennancolberg.com

41–50 of 290 posts

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#41
I am reminded of the concept of "deep procrastination" by Cal Newport. He's written about it in a handful of articles from a decade ago, rather disappointing that the concept hasn't caught on and isn't talked around more. It sounds a lot like burnout- either a cause or a symptom of it.

> Deep procrastination is a distressing affliction. Students who suffer from it lose the ability to start school work. Deadlines pass and they hand nothing in. Professors provide special extensions, but the students still can’t bring themselves to do the work. And so on.

> One way to understand deep procrastination, therefore, is as a rejection of an ambiguous, abstract answer to the key question of why you’re going through the mental strain required by the college experience.

https://www.calnewport.com/blog/2011/07/15/how-to-cure-deep-...

His solutions involve mindset refocusing (diving into the why's of the goal that is being procrastinated on), which I think I've seen in another anti-procrastination guide posted somewhere on HN before recently, and seem to be a bit cursory.

The other two blog entries about it:

https://www.calnewport.com/blog/2009/02/16/the-danger-of-dee...

https://www.calnewport.com/blog/2010/04/29/the-upside-of-dee...

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#42
post #35

Pair programming can be a solution. Your employer may fear you are slower than on your own but in reality it will vastly increase your productivity and make you feel better at the same time. Also the result will often be better than what you would have eventually achieved by yourself.

This worked incredibly well in my experience for debug sessions.

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#43
post #35

Pair programming can be a solution. Your employer may fear you are slower than on your own but in reality it will vastly increase your productivity and make you feel better at the same time. Also the result will often be better than what you would have eventually achieved by yourself.

[deleted]

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#44
I had this issue with my first software job right out of college. I was unproductive for weeks, just due to culture shock and (shamefully) malaise. The procrastination snowballed. Luckily a fellow engineer eventually noticed, sat down with me, and recognized exactly what was going on. In the kindest way possible, he sat down behind me and basically made me finally start my next project. He stayed there with me for the rest of the day, answering and asking questions to keep my progress going. It had quite an impact on me. Having another person involved and actively care about my work went a long way.

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#45
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The pills help but motivation is not some emergent property of normality. You first need to care about, and genuinely want to do, the task required to accomplish your goals. I’m a fan of this quote from Steve Jobs – (paraphrasing) “every day you wake up and look in the mirror, do you like what you’re doing that day? If not, it’s time to do something else.” The other quote I like is Jeff Bezos and his “picturing mysel…

ADHD is not a motivation thing. Generally speaking. You might struggle with motivation and that's okay, but framing it as a ADHD trait might harm others. Be cautious about that. I was burned out and got into depression because I was going hard on myself for years. Blaming my motivation and asking myself if I even "genuinely want to do the task required to accomplish your[my] goals". Getting my diagnosis was a huge re…

I completely agree, I think that’s the point I’m making - motivation is separate from execution. No pill is going to make you want to do something or to accomplish some goal. You need to decide that for yourself, and only then can execution even make a difference in the first place.

In fact I’d say the clearest indicator of ADHD is a surplus of motivation coupled with a dearth of execution. You know you want it, but you can’t do it, despite being acutely aware of your day-to-day actions fucking it up. This is what medication helps with in my experience.

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The pills help but motivation is not some emergent property of normality. You first need to care about, and genuinely want to do, the task required to accomplish your goals. I’m a fan of this quote from Steve Jobs – (paraphrasing) “every day you wake up and look in the mirror, do you like what you’re doing that day? If not, it’s time to do something else.” The other quote I like is Jeff Bezos and his “picturing mysel…

In your experience does the medication get more effective if you can find ways to work with it? I've been trying to make it work for a while now and it seems like it either does nothing or makes me lock on to some random tangential (usually useless) task I'm near when it kicks in. Really not getting a quieting like with caffeine, which has been disappointing.

When I first started working with my psychiatrist, she had me try several different stimulants and I found that the effect was surprisingly different for different formulations. My experience with a generic for Ritalin was a lot like what you described, but my experience with dextroamphetamine was totally different: it does quiet my mind down and I don't get pulled into hyperfocus nearly as much. The subjective feeling was different too; I'm not sure how to describe it, but the dextroamphetamine just felt softer.

I've found that the effects change massively with sleep quality. When I'm short on sleep for a few nights, it almost feels like the medication stops working. It still has an effect—I am noticeably more clumsy and forgetful without it—but it feels different and the higher-order effect on focus or executive function is less pronounced.

Another thing I've heard is that protein in the morning helps. I've tried drinking a protein shake for breakfast and it seems to make the day better in general, but with a much smaller effect than sleep quality. For all I know, it might just have been the case that I only remembered to have breakfast on days when I had slept well...

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#47
post #44

I had this issue with my first software job right out of college. I was unproductive for weeks, just due to culture shock and (shamefully) malaise. The procrastination snowballed. Luckily a fellow engineer eventually noticed, sat down with me, and recognized exactly what was going on. In the kindest way possible, he sat down behind me and basically made me finally start my next project. He stayed there with me for th…

That's an amazing experience report.

I remember teaming up with a former colleague at a point where their SRI had just kicked in, and my motivation was down the drain. I felt they were doing me a huge favor, and they felt the same way back. Pair programming is, so far, the only certain cure to my procrastination. I'll certainly work when not pair programming, but pair programming will make me give 100% for 12+ hours simply because of the commitment to another person, and the reward of continuous socialising.

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#49
post #34
post #11

The book The Now Habit has helped me

Can you share briefly how it has helped you?

Not GP and hopefully GP might come back too and answer but I think the book is useful to different people in different ways - even if it is a very short book.

One idea that stuck with me both for myself and in a team setting:

Fear of failure and how it is overcome: at one point the book tells the reader to imagine walking across a 2x4 beam or something laying on the ground, then walking across the same beam between two highrise towers. The first is really simple, the second is something most of us would never do if we could avoid it even if we knew the beam is perfectly safe. Now the author ask the reader to imagine being stuck at the top of the high rise with a fire raging below and coming closer. Most can probably now imagine themselves crossing the beam in some way, if nothing else by sitting on their butts inching themselves across. This is a someone who has a pathological fear of failure when a deadline is looming. Last the author asks the reader to imagine walking the same beam between the same two highrises but now there is no fire and there is a perfect safety net directly below it. Most people could probably do this, many would even enjoy it. This is a challenging job with a "safety net" where failing is safe.

I realize Neil Fiore didn't come up with this, this goes further back, see for example https://medium.com/s/radical-spirits/the-man-who-helped-the-...

... but the book is were I learned about this example.

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#50
post #25

I have this theory that depression is a result of deadlocked procrastinations.

It may trigger a depression or push you deeper in depression but it certainly isn't the sole cause of depression.

edit: and depressed people are also great procrastinators, if getting out of bed seems a chore, then you're not going to be productive.

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