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Pentagon and CIA shaped thousands of Hollywood movies into effective propaganda

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Re: Pentagon and CIA shaped thousands of Hollywood movies into effective propaganda

#251

Post by tauntz »

throwawaylinux wrote: post #81
TaylorAlexander wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think Hollywood is lot less subtle now at trying to push political propaganda I think the past efforts were pretty blatant. I think we just know more about how they operate and so it becomes easier to see. > wokeism Would love to know what this means.

For all the feigning of ignorance, 'woke' is well entrenched in in mainstream language now. It would definitely have made it to one of those "word of the year" things within the past few years if it wasn't for wokeism. Urban dictionary can help you out if you really don't know https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=woke Pretending to be bravely battling fascism and tyranny on behalf of the oppressed while ce…

As a non-native English speaker not living in the US, I've heard the word (or rather, read) multiple times but I honestly have never bothered to research what it actually means but I think I've kinda gotten the context around it(?)

I've seen it being tossed around on Reddit when there's post about US politics/US social issues and it always looked to me like a generic insult thrown at somebody who doesn't like the more conservative "side" of the US political spectrum. I basically got the impression that it's a shorthand for "You think your opinion and views are modern and hip but I don't share the same view on the world and you are stupid due to that". Reading now Urban dictionary, I see that I was.. kinda on the right track?

US is really weird :)

Re: Pentagon and CIA shaped thousands of Hollywood movies into effective propaganda

#252

Post by CodeGlitch »

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #209
elefanten wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Would love to know what this means. You saying you’re completely baffled by this term, or asking for the poster’s particular meaning? I’d draw a parallel to “White supremacy”. Given the wild range of applications for the term, you need to get a sense of what any one wielder really means. But it’d be quite obtuse to reply “what’s White supremacy?”

White supremacy is the belief that white people and whiteness should hold power over black and brown people. No one in my social circles uses “wokeness” at all, certainly never seriously. It always seems like people upset at “wokeness” are actually just upset that people producing popular media support very simple concepts of diversity. Like when black actors get representation in media previously dominated by white…

> Like when black actors get representation in media previously dominated by white people, to me that is just a good thing, but I see reports that many think this is “wokeness”, which they think is bad.

In the 90s Will Smith starred in Independence Day, and absolutely no one complained (as far as I know) because Will Smith is awesome and he deserved the role. See also Blade from the same era.

People get upset when it's clear that a person has been chosen for a role/position just because of their skin colour/gender/sexuality rather than their talent. I can't actually think of any movies that have done this, but plenty of TV shows (Star Trek Discovery).

Obviously some roles require the person to be of a certain race for it to appear authentic. Lots of older films used white actors for middle Eastern roles, which is seen as "white washing" and is therefore wrong. The latest Ghost in the Shell race swapped the main character to be American, and was rightly called out for doing so.

Basically we should be allowed to criticize both ways...

Re: Pentagon and CIA shaped thousands of Hollywood movies into effective propaganda

#253

Post by denton-scratch »

anthonyshort wrote: post #83
agumonkey wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My bet is that most groups have this in them. Being right, being the hero. America just had the lead in entertainment and tech

In my experience, other countries don't view themselves that way, and it's mostly seen as an Americanism (I'm not American)

British war films made 1939-1945 were explicitly propaganda. And there was a lot of them.

Re: Pentagon and CIA shaped thousands of Hollywood movies into effective propaganda

#254

Post by throwawaylinux »

tauntz wrote: post #251
throwawaylinux wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For all the feigning of ignorance, 'woke' is well entrenched in in mainstream language now. It would definitely have made it to one of those "word of the year" things within the past few years if it wasn't for wokeism. Urban dictionary can help you out if you really don't know https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=woke Pretending to be bravely battling fascism and tyranny on behalf of the oppressed while ce…

As a non-native English speaker not living in the US, I've heard the word (or rather, read) multiple times but I honestly have never bothered to research what it actually means but I think I've kinda gotten the context around it(?) I've seen it being tossed around on Reddit when there's post about US politics/US social issues and it always looked to me like a generic insult thrown at somebody who doesn't like the mor…

I don't see what urban dictionary entries lead you to believe you are on the right track, but the top voted 2-3 do not. Those are what it means: hypocrisy and insincerity about progressive causes.

Re: Pentagon and CIA shaped thousands of Hollywood movies into effective propaganda

#255

Post by molodec »

agumonkey wrote: post #47
MaxHoppersGhost wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans love that stuff though, it’s not necessarily propaganda forced down our throats. We’d still want to see the badass, all American commando on a 100 kill streak.

My bet is that most groups have this in them. Being right, being the hero. America just had the lead in entertainment and tech

I grew up watching Soviet movies about war, which usually depict very different picture. Sure, there are heroes, but they are not super heroes as in American movies. They get injured, die. Soviet war movies show that wars really suck.

Re: Pentagon and CIA shaped thousands of Hollywood movies into effective propaganda

#256

Post by ArnoVW »

scotty79 wrote: post #248
ArnoVW wrote: post #171

I bumped into this video about the making of 'Top Gun' the other day. Interesting in many ways. It shows the photographical choices and approaches that they used. The creative process and choices (and the vision and influence of Bruckenheimer).. and the way that the Navy had an influence. Example: the CO of the Miramar base (where it was shot) had a veto right on the script. He rejected because there was a romance be…

Recently I read about Chinese reusing frames from Top Gun as theur military propaganda. It's even funnier that it turns out they just reused US propaganda as theirs.

That. And since China constitutes a juicy market, the Taiwanese and Japanese flags were removed from Maverick's jacket in the sequel

https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/top-gun-...

Re: Pentagon and CIA shaped thousands of Hollywood movies into effective propaganda

#257

Post by UweSchmidt »

pdimitar wrote: post #202
UweSchmidt wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Propaganda probably still works even if you're aware what's going on.

Definitely not on me but I know people for whom that applies, yeah.

I'm changing that to: Propaganda works and there is little defense.

Pictures, voices, narratives, emotions directly create memories; connections between neurons are created or strenghtened - you can switch on your "anti virus" but the machine is hacked on the "hardware" level.

Re: Pentagon and CIA shaped thousands of Hollywood movies into effective propaganda

#258

Post by denton-scratch »

blueflow wrote: post #232
heavyset_go wrote: post #7

Once this was pointed out, I can't unsee it. It's kind of ruined movies that involves the military or military equipment for me, since it can be really obvious when creators toe the line for the military. When I see military equipment my gut reaction is to anticipate the other shoe dropping, and to look for shoehorned hero worship or some good-versus-evil plot point.

I recommend "The Thin Red Line (1998)" as a reference movie that is American, but not funded and appreciated by the military complex.

There are obvious exceptions - The Hurt Locker doesn't look to me like anyone in the military signed off on it. Nor Platoon (which I understand is much-liked by veterans).

Re: Pentagon and CIA shaped thousands of Hollywood movies into effective propaganda

#259

Post by ByThyGrace »

UweSchmidt wrote: post #192
pydry wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's an additional very blatant theme I've been seeing of "science and engineers are the coolest!" that cropped up in, e.g. The Tomorrow War and another recent military themed US movie whose name I forget. They made me wonder if the army is fretting about its access to STEM skills.

There might have been some improvements in this area but I still haven't seen any (male) IT guy in a movie who is not portrayed as some kind of weirdo and relegated to the side. Even female nerds are at the very best assisting the hero. TV lawyers and doctors however get to hold jargon-filled monologues and be in lead roles. /rant

Now imagine House M.D. rehashed to a brilliant but callous software guru trying to diagnose various misbehaviours/misuse of tech all around town. I'm not sure if that's a promising pitch or straight up garbage!

Re: Pentagon and CIA shaped thousands of Hollywood movies into effective propaganda

#260

Post by Retric »

throwawaylinux wrote: post #237
TaylorAlexander wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did read the web link you sent but I am genuinely unsure how often people mean “any minor progressive thing is wokeism” or they mean “token gestures that are ultimately meaningless” is wokeism. And what is meaningless to one person could be very meaningful to another. I mentioned the bigotry because honest to god that’s the times where I hear people use it - complaining about the most basic progressive representati…

Quoted post unavailable.

Hollywood is not some united single entity. I’ve seen some powerful anti gun movies, and movies that treat them like a fetish. At the end of the day it’s a business and it’s more profitable to make movies people want to see. Be that Saw - for some people or Barney's Great Adventure for a different audience.
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