Tips to grow your North Korean Startup • Hacker News Board

Re: Tips to grow your North Korean Startup

#201

Post by perl4ever » Fri, Jan 07, 2022, 2:47 AM UTC

malermeister wrote: post #154

germandiago wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Cuba gives free healthcare to its people I think you do not have basic notions of economy. How can something be free? If it is free, it is because someone is doing the work (the doctors). If the doctors do not get paid a market price they are being exploited (forced to work for less). So that is where it is paid. You get it for free, yes, at the expense of those people that could have a better life and in the name…

I think you do not have basic notions of economy and what you just said is just propaganda. There's no two kinds of humans - from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs. The doctors will get free healthcare too, if they need it. Trying to put market value on medical care is inhumane and prioritizes an economic system over human life. I'm not sure why you're talking about rich people here, but b…

>the accumulation of capital is what's truly exploitative

When I think of "accumulation of capital" in modern society, semiconductor fabs are the ultimate example.

I can't imagine disagreeing that the building of such factories encompasses most of the world via supply chains and most of the exploitation in it.

But I feel like there's an ambiguity and I don't understand what is to be our goal.

Should we not have "accumulations of capital"? That is, should we tear down (and hopefully recycle) all of the incredibly expensive factories?

Or should we have accumulations of capital that are not owned by specific people? What is ownership?

I don't know about the real Mafia, but in fiction, there is the trope of the wealthy mob boss who owns nothing on paper, in order to avoid the law, but relies on relationships to define what he has.

On the other hand, many large companies are presently not majority owned by any human being, but mainly by collective entities like index funds. Is that good enough? Or is that irrelevant to an economic system because some people own more index funds than others?

Re: Tips to grow your North Korean Startup

#202

Post by miracle2k » Fri, Jan 07, 2022, 2:51 AM UTC

germandiago wrote: post #180

cmmeur01 wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crazy what a blockade by the worlds largest economy 90 miles away for decades can do huh?

False claims. First, it is an embargo. Second, not all products are blocked at all. Food and medicines can be freely bought. But wait... who blocks the entrance of those? Oh, yes... the customs. Try to send dollars: the regime will keep them and will give CUPs to relatives of cubans. I have heard (not confirmed data) that in the customs they can take as much as half of what you send. But yes, the embargo is the probl…

The Cuban regime is responsible for its sins. The US is responsible for the consequences of its embargo. The whole point of these sanctions it to put pressure on the sanctioned economy; the more pain the economy experiences, and by extension the people who live there, the better. It is disingenuous to claim that US policy is not leading to economic suffering there.

Re: Tips to grow your North Korean Startup

#203

Post by throwaway2331 » Fri, Jan 07, 2022, 2:51 AM UTC

germandiago wrote: post #134

lordnacho wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was there, some Cubans offered us a lobster meal. Some fisherman had brought them in, and of course they knew the tourists could pay for it. So since this seemed to be illegal, they arranged for us to drive to their house, and then immediately boarded up the garage so our car wasn't visible from the street. Inside we got the lobsters as promised, maybe the only good food we had apart from the resorts. It came…

And what you are describing is part of the misery they are condemned to by the regime. They cannot trade normally, everything is treated as trafficking and the hihger layer has privileges, control and are corrupted and live from spoiling the rest. You want to do something by yourself? Brive me, because it is illegal or you will have trouble. And anyway, if I want, you can have trouble any day, because you did somethi…

How is this any different from the U.S., except the level of material available is slightly greater?

Re: Tips to grow your North Korean Startup

#204

Post by lisper » Fri, Jan 07, 2022, 2:53 AM UTC

sudosysgen wrote: post #89

lisper wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is, empirically, where forms of government commonly labelled as "left" ends up when taken to extremes. North Korea is just the most extreme example.

Yeah, bullshit. What other "left" government ended up with a hereditary monarchy?

You're right, left-wing dictatorships tend not to be hereditary. NK is unique in this regard.

Re: Tips to grow your North Korean Startup

#205

Post by andromeduck » Fri, Jan 07, 2022, 2:55 AM UTC

germandiago wrote: post #134

lordnacho wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was there, some Cubans offered us a lobster meal. Some fisherman had brought them in, and of course they knew the tourists could pay for it. So since this seemed to be illegal, they arranged for us to drive to their house, and then immediately boarded up the garage so our car wasn't visible from the street. Inside we got the lobsters as promised, maybe the only good food we had apart from the resorts. It came…

And what you are describing is part of the misery they are condemned to by the regime. They cannot trade normally, everything is treated as trafficking and the hihger layer has privileges, control and are corrupted and live from spoiling the rest. You want to do something by yourself? Brive me, because it is illegal or you will have trouble. And anyway, if I want, you can have trouble any day, because you did somethi…

This is pretty much also how government works in San Francisco.

Re: Tips to grow your North Korean Startup

#206

Post by throwaway2331 » Fri, Jan 07, 2022, 2:56 AM UTC

germandiago wrote: post #172

opportune wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well one thing about going to a poor communist country is you still notice that a lot of people are doing regular people things like sending their children to school or dance lessons, having weddings, playing music, dancing, and drinking alcohol. The corollary to random consumer goods being in constant shortages is that other things are much more “affordable” than they’d be in a market economy. Cuba is not really in…

> The corollary to random consumer goods being in constant shortages is that other things are much more “affordable” than they’d be in a market economy. No way for their wealth, to begin with, and why you should choose how people choose? They are animals? Everything that is cheaper than its possible price is literally being paid by someone, with their labour or by others. Free things, literally, do not exist. And thi…

That exists everywhere in the world.

The only difference is that Cuba doesn't have the opportunity to exploit foreign nations to enrich itself (and get even fatter on taxes).

Re: Tips to grow your North Korean Startup

#207

Post by beepbooptheory » Fri, Jan 07, 2022, 3:01 AM UTC

germandiago wrote: post #157

beepbooptheory wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An extremely bold claim! In your mind, the communist project is one of the greatest and relatively most successful conspiracies to date. Do you think that all those books people have written about it, both for and critically against, are just filled nonsense, and the writers and thinkers just had to count on the fact that nobody would actually read them? And that I, who have read a small portion, am somehow hypnotize…

If communism was a real thing, it would have worked as predicted. It did not happen. I think one of the worst contributions of marxism (as in incorrect) is the theory of objective value (translating from spanish, I hope I am doing it right), which basically says how much you are being stolen. In fact, there is no such thing as objective value and this is very easy to demonstrate in the experience of any of us. It is…

This is not what Marx believed, he painfully toils through literally thousands of pages arguing for his theory of value, and is not that there is one objective value, which translates to the exploitation of the worker. In fact, his theory is grounded in the profound complication of what we consider 'value', specifically its duality under capitalism: "use value" and "exchange value". What you are most likely referring to is " surplus value" which is something like the amount you can point to that comes from the exploitation of the worker, but it comes from a very complicated pseudo algebra of his own design.

The best thing to pick at, if you are arguing with Marxists, is the general "labor theory of value" and whether that ultimately is correct. The labor theory of value has to do with how we assign economic value to things on the market, and that it ultimately is from the labor of those who produce the product.

Re: Tips to grow your North Korean Startup

#208

Post by perl4ever » Fri, Jan 07, 2022, 3:02 AM UTC

scythe wrote: post #197

lobocinza wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Accordingly to Cuban government or reliable sources?

The user you replied to posted such a source just a few comments down: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29831757

That appears to be about China. What am I missing?

Also, assuming we have perfect faith in Chinese government statistics and Cuban government statistics...

Nevertheless, the wild variations in Covid experiences between countries and controversy over why it happened, make me think it is a useless yardstick.

Re: Tips to grow your North Korean Startup

#209

Post by perl4ever » Fri, Jan 07, 2022, 3:04 AM UTC

camdat wrote: post #100

sudosysgen wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Quoted post unavailable.

What is the connection between Cuba and "Excess mortality in Wuhan city and other parts of China during the three months of the covid-19 outbreak: findings from nationwide mortality registries"?

Are you saying that since we know that Chinese statistics are accurate, Cuban statistics must also be?

Re: Tips to grow your North Korean Startup

#210

Post by germandiago » Fri, Jan 07, 2022, 3:08 AM UTC

miracle2k wrote: post #202

germandiago wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

False claims. First, it is an embargo. Second, not all products are blocked at all. Food and medicines can be freely bought. But wait... who blocks the entrance of those? Oh, yes... the customs. Try to send dollars: the regime will keep them and will give CUPs to relatives of cubans. I have heard (not confirmed data) that in the customs they can take as much as half of what you send. But yes, the embargo is the probl…

The Cuban regime is responsible for its sins. The US is responsible for the consequences of its embargo. The whole point of these sanctions it to put pressure on the sanctioned economy; the more pain the economy experiences, and by extension the people who live there, the better. It is disingenuous to claim that US policy is not leading to economic suffering there.

The original reason for the embargo was because when the lands were expropiated the americans forbid to basically trade with cubans to not trade with stolen property due to the revolution.

I tell you if you are not aware of the original reason. The original reason makes sense.

I understand that normal people is who suffer. That is true and sad.