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Tips to grow your North Korean Startup

mrsteinberg.com

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Re: Tips to grow your North Korean Startup

#91

Post by hunterb123 »

mrtksn wrote: post #52
germandiago wrote: post #22

This is the sad truth of places like Cuba or North Korea. Everything is forbidden to the point that eating is difficult. So people get corrupted and the guards, etc. just want their part. None of those things should be illegal. It is really annoying to see how a leader class kills people of hunger and make everything illegal so that now everyone is a criminal for trying to survive.

I don't know about DPRK but I have been to Cuba for a 2 weeks vacation, so I had time to go out of the default tourists spots. What I've seen is this: Those who have access to tourists or to the government are rich. Corruption is rampant as I've seen people bribing police right at the airport to have their things sorted out. The mainstream corruption in society revolves around casa particulars and taxis. Essentially,…

No post body was provided.

Re: Tips to grow your North Korean Startup

#92

Post by pphysch »

gitgrump wrote: post #12
pphysch wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Erm, no? That's unnecessarily reductionist. "Can compel you to pay taxes" is not the same as "authoritarian". Go ahead, criticize the President online in the United States. Notice how you weren't jailed or executed? Now try something similar in an authoritarian nation.

Are you aware what the current date is and its significance to dissidents of the current regime in Washington? Hundreds of (primarily non-violent) dissidents prosecuted and incarcerated in the last year alone.

To be clear, I don't agree politically with those dissidents.

Re: Tips to grow your North Korean Startup

#93

Post by throwaway0a5e »

sudosysgen wrote: post #86
stickfigure wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have modern Venezuela as a ripe example.

Modern day Venezuela has a larger amount of private, for profit economic activity and employement than France. It's meaningfully a socialist economy, just an insanely corrupt mixed-market economy with a government pretending to be socialist to keep power.

> Modern day Venezuela has a larger amount of private, for profit economic activity and employement than France.

Is that supposed to reflect well on Venezuela or be a slight at France? Because Venezuela isn't exactly doing to hot in the economics department right now.

Re: Tips to grow your North Korean Startup

#94

Post by vmception »

germandiago wrote: post #25
warning26 wrote: post #14

Really interesting article! On a related note, one oddity I often see online (and, once, in person) are the die-hard groups of westerners who insist that North Korea is actually a paradise on earth and any claim to the contrary is some kind of evil capitalist propaganda. Utterly baffling, when there are so many sources like this article indicating otherwise.

I have lived in Vietnam for almost a decade. North Korea seems to be the equivalent of Vietnam before it started to open its economy in the 90s. I can tell you, that is a hell, but what really makes me more angry about all this is how a leading class spoils people mercilessly and treat them as animals with no dignity. I am talking about North Korea for what I see in articles lately. But in Cuba there are similar patt…

I think Vietnam is interesting since it is the same single party Communist country that we lost to, graduated to state capital system like they all do, has authoritative control over all facets of life and especially dissidents, but doesnt trigger anyone in my circles, doesnt appear in my news negatively, and is seen as a travel destination.

Kinda funny is that it really just means they are irrelevant as a competitor or market, and that none of us really care about governing systems or really care about imagining everyone is a victim because they lack self determination for their country, only competitors.

Re: Tips to grow your North Korean Startup

#95

Post by ModernMech »

beaconstudios wrote: post #81
merpnderp wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many countries has communism been attempted in? 25? And of those, 4 remain officially communist, but whose economies have either transited to free markets or are moving that way. It is safe to say only the dreamers still believe in communism.m And people keep saying that communism hasn't been tried. But it has. It starts with the state trying to be socialist and then "withering away" to full on communism (accordi…

Yeah, state socialism doesn't work, that much is exceedingly obvious. That doesn't mean that we should just give up and accept capitalism as "the best we can do" as a species. It's just clear that authoritarian means are funnily enough not the route to a less authoritarian future.

People forget that there are many axes of the political compass. I think political scholars count over a dozen. Who knows how many there are, but it's definitely not a simple linear left/right dichotomy. One other important axis in this context is the authoritarian/democratic dichotomy. We know that the left/authoritarian (Soviets) quadrant of this space doesn't work, just as we know the right/authoritarian (Nazis) quadrant doesn't work.

We have evidence in America that the right/democratic quadrant kind of works -- it can produce great prosperity, but there can be a lot of sadness still (Jim Crow). At least there are mechanisms to fix it internally. It can get better (Civil Rights Act) but it can also get worse; we are finding now that if the Overton window moves too far to the right, there seems to be a tendency for America to become more authoritarian. We don't really know what going too far left looks like in America (probably the same IMO) because it's never even come close to happening; despite all the hysteric labeling of Democrats as Communists, they are really more liberal than left. There is no mainstream leftist representation in the US Federal Government, not even Bernie or AOC (the Green New Deal is written squarely within the framework of capitalism).

There are a lot of people out there saying that the left/democratic quadrant looks attractive, but they are shouted down by people who say that we can't ever try that, because look at what the left/authoritarian quadrant did in the past. People who are here in this thread right now. They are very vigorous about this claim, possibly because they lived under such left/authoritarian regimes. But I think that's a big mistake to conflate left/authoritarian with left/democratic, and it leaves us at a suboptimal local maxima as a society.

People often argue that it's a short trip from left/democratic to left/authoritarian, and that may be true. But it's also a short trip from right/democratic to right/authoritarian, and that's where we are right now as a nation. On this day, January 6, we as Americans should be more aware of that than ever. But that doesn't mean we can't try new things, and we shouldn't be held back from improving the future by the failures of the past.

Re: Tips to grow your North Korean Startup

#96

Post by lordnacho »

mrtksn wrote: post #52
germandiago wrote: post #22

This is the sad truth of places like Cuba or North Korea. Everything is forbidden to the point that eating is difficult. So people get corrupted and the guards, etc. just want their part. None of those things should be illegal. It is really annoying to see how a leader class kills people of hunger and make everything illegal so that now everyone is a criminal for trying to survive.

I don't know about DPRK but I have been to Cuba for a 2 weeks vacation, so I had time to go out of the default tourists spots. What I've seen is this: Those who have access to tourists or to the government are rich. Corruption is rampant as I've seen people bribing police right at the airport to have their things sorted out. The mainstream corruption in society revolves around casa particulars and taxis. Essentially,…

When I was there, some Cubans offered us a lobster meal. Some fisherman had brought them in, and of course they knew the tourists could pay for it. So since this seemed to be illegal, they arranged for us to drive to their house, and then immediately boarded up the garage so our car wasn't visible from the street.

Inside we got the lobsters as promised, maybe the only good food we had apart from the resorts. It came with some extremely stringy mangoes that I don't want to try again.

They also had friends come over to offer cigars and those peculiar Cuban shirts, I think taken from a factory. At least that was their story.

On the other side, they seemed to have a desire to buy clothes, in particular sports clothes like basketball tops. We didn't have that with us but we were told they'd swap the cigars for a top easily. Even just a shirt like you might wear for working in the City would fetch a lot of cigars, apparently.

Re: Tips to grow your North Korean Startup

#97

Post by mrtksn »

hunterb123 wrote: post #91
mrtksn wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about DPRK but I have been to Cuba for a 2 weeks vacation, so I had time to go out of the default tourists spots. What I've seen is this: Those who have access to tourists or to the government are rich. Corruption is rampant as I've seen people bribing police right at the airport to have their things sorted out. The mainstream corruption in society revolves around casa particulars and taxis. Essentially,…

Quoted post unavailable.

Relax, I'm not American and the place is full of tourists and happy locals(not all, but it's fine. In which country everyone is happy?).

On the bright side, I never went to Saudi Arabia. I really don't like murderous regimes, especially those who suppress and kill journalists and get away with it because all US presidents want to sell them weapons and stuff.

Re: Tips to grow your North Korean Startup

#98

Post by camdat »

908B64B197 wrote: post #36
germandiago wrote: post #22

This is the sad truth of places like Cuba or North Korea. Everything is forbidden to the point that eating is difficult. So people get corrupted and the guards, etc. just want their part. None of those things should be illegal. It is really annoying to see how a leader class kills people of hunger and make everything illegal so that now everyone is a criminal for trying to survive.

It's the reason it's harder to work in a resort or operate a taxi in Cuba than it is to become a "doctor". The former has access to foreign currency with a real value. The later can hope to maybe get an exit visa (the government will loan it's "doctors" to foreign regimes in exchange for real currencies).

Why the quotes around doctor? Cuba has some of the best health outcomes in the LatAm (and arguably the world), it seems like their doctors are of a higher quality than most.

Re: Tips to grow your North Korean Startup

#99

Post by hunterb123 »

mrtksn wrote: post #97
hunterb123 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Relax, I'm not American and the place is full of tourists and happy locals(not all, but it's fine. In which country everyone is happy?). On the bright side, I never went to Saudi Arabia. I really don't like murderous regimes, especially those who suppress and kill journalists and get away with it because all US presidents want to sell them weapons and stuff.

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Re: Tips to grow your North Korean Startup

#100

Post by camdat »

sudosysgen wrote: post #83
908B64B197 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is this not true, or no longer true? Have I been under a false impression for all this time? Annecdotal evidence, but an acquintance of mine (who is an MD) encountered Cuban "doctors" in South America and wasn't impressed at all. > I even remember seeing this mentioned in the newspaper at the beginning of the pandemic. The thing is that Cuba made a lot of claims about their handling of the pandemic, but as with eve…

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