Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly uprising • Hacker News Board

Re: Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly uprising

#91

Post by throwaway0a5e » Thu, Jan 06, 2022, 1:30 PM UTC

washadjeffmad wrote: post #82

fivea wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But why is such a dysfunctional dictatorship so stable? (...) I believe the answer is: it is backed by the West because a stable dictator in Kazakhstan and Azerbaijan guarantees the oil flow. And yet, it's Russia and it's strong-arm tactics that are desperately trying to keep Kazakhstan's regime in power. Think about it: Russia is even sending it's paratroopers to Kazakhstan to stomp out unrest. Not the US. Not the…

What makes you feel that economic interests are always the same as political interests? Why doesn't Russia kill all its Sturgeon so American Royalty can't eat Russian caviar? Maybe things are not as simple as Fox News makes them.

>What makes you feel that economic interests are always the same as political interests?

HN is generally bad at understanding that people will willingly forgo some wealth in exchange for political/ideological/religious goals when the forgoing takes any form other than paying more taxes to fund something you approve of.

They get it when your example is something they all support like the US fighting a civil war over slavery but when you try to generalize that behavior up a step and then use it to explain the actions of people supporting something they don't agree with you get something like this[1].

[1] https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/patrick-stars-wallet

Re: Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly uprising

#92

Post by pjc50 » Thu, Jan 06, 2022, 1:32 PM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #83

sam_lowry_ wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kazakh elite keeps its money in western banks, flies western planes to western capitals and owns land and property in top western locations. Same for Russian elite. In the Cold War, dealing with Soviets was unthinkable. Now, the West is complacent, there is even a term for it, Schröderizatsiya. See this opinion piece by the former Estonian president [1]. [1] https://news.err.ee/1608362130/toomas-hendrik-ilves-alexei-…

What’s the alternative, Sanctions? What about China, should they be sanctioned too? [Many make the claim that sanctions mostly affect civilians so for example are against Iran Sanctions, etc.]

Well, yes. Hence the Magnitsky Act.

Although really the question of banking money from unacceptable foreigners is an old one, unresolved throughout the 20th century. It's too convenient for the West to really give up on, so a short list is maintained of the "definitely unacceptable", but there's no systematic criteria for what "unacceptable" really is.

It's quite clear from the lack of UK response to the Salisbury poisonings that the UK is financially compromised into indifference, for example.

Re: Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly uprising

#93

Post by inglor_cz » Thu, Jan 06, 2022, 1:33 PM UTC

patrec wrote: post #85

thejackgoode wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being Eastern European, I can attest to the fact that this kindness and generosity (poorly abstracted as being passionate about things) has a flip side, and you don’t want to be on the opposite side of this treatment.

> you don’t want to be on the opposite side of this treatment. How high is the risk, if you make an effort to behave well?

A random traveller from afar is unlikely to be subject to the worst risk, which is something like sudden bout of sectarian or ethnic violence between neighbours.

As if people felt the need to compensate for their hospitality and generosity elsewhere.

Re: Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly uprising

#94

Post by nradov » Thu, Jan 06, 2022, 1:34 PM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #83

sam_lowry_ wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kazakh elite keeps its money in western banks, flies western planes to western capitals and owns land and property in top western locations. Same for Russian elite. In the Cold War, dealing with Soviets was unthinkable. Now, the West is complacent, there is even a term for it, Schröderizatsiya. See this opinion piece by the former Estonian president [1]. [1] https://news.err.ee/1608362130/toomas-hendrik-ilves-alexei-…

What’s the alternative, Sanctions? What about China, should they be sanctioned too? [Many make the claim that sanctions mostly affect civilians so for example are against Iran Sanctions, etc.]

Yes some sanctions would be a good idea. We hoped that opening up trade with Russia and China would help them transform into free-market democracies. But that approach has failed so it's time to return to the Cold War policy of containment. Work with our asked to keep our adversaries as weak and isolated as possible.

Besides sanctions, we should also seek to undermine and delegitimize those governments by supporting dissident movements and other covert actions.

Re: Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly uprising

#95

Post by Guessnotgauss » Thu, Jan 06, 2022, 1:34 PM UTC

radmuzom wrote: post #66

mlindner wrote: post #43

Lots of weird extremely Russian-patriot sounding comments in this thread. Russia is sending paratroopers because they don't want another Ukraine situation. They don't want Kazakhstan to break away from Russia because of a popular uprising like Ukraine did. And it's a lot easier for them to prevent it than it was for Ukraine because Ukraine doesn't border Europe so the west won't protest it as much. I expect a whole l…

> Lots of weird extremely Russian-patriot sounding comments in this thread. This kind of nonsense comments appear whenever there are people with positive comments on China or Russia. I guess my top level comment on this thread will be one of the "Russia-patriot" ones. For the record, I am an Indian living in Malaysia - I simply choose to read proper sources and be informed of geopolitical events rather than parrot US…

Yeah its ok to be suspicious of these type of comments, we already know nation states do everything they can to make sure they have the proper PR optics. The US, especially China (genocide), and why not Russia too. The truth is self evident here, Kazak leadership is just another neo-colonial muppet for whoever is calling the shots on natural resources.

These are not Slavs and no they dont belong to Russia in any sense. You can look up the country demographics, the minorities are other former non-Slav soviet nations. Russia has no interest in the rights of the Kazak people, this is just their run up to reverting back to old fashioned imperialism.

The US uses the same play book, just dont get it twisted about Russia's intentions. In any case the whole world will watch and do nothing cause everyone has their own problems ?

If you read Noam Chomsky you will understand that propoganda is used by every country. But if you read enough history you know for damn sure there are no good intentions here, except people asking for their right to a decent way of life.

Re: Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly uprising

#96

Post by inglor_cz » Thu, Jan 06, 2022, 1:34 PM UTC

fivea wrote: post #81

scotty79 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you assume Putin and western corporations are antagonistic? Putin is just closest strong arm and most appropriate politically.

> Do you assume Putin and western corporations are antagonistic? Please don't try to change the subject. Putin sent Russia's paratroopers to Kazakhstan to use them against Kazakhstan's civilian population to quelsh unrest. It's not the US, Switzerland, Finland, the EU, nothing. This is Russia intervening in Kazakhstan to preserve Russia's interests, and no amount of whataboutism changes this.

Not the OP, but way too many German politicians seem to be cooperative with Gazprom et al., regardless of what happens elsewhere (Ukraine etc.)

Re: Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly uprising

#97

Post by g8oz » Thu, Jan 06, 2022, 1:38 PM UTC

mlindner wrote: post #74

radmuzom wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Lots of weird extremely Russian-patriot sounding comments in this thread. This kind of nonsense comments appear whenever there are people with positive comments on China or Russia. I guess my top level comment on this thread will be one of the "Russia-patriot" ones. For the record, I am an Indian living in Malaysia - I simply choose to read proper sources and be informed of geopolitical events rather than parrot US…

When the world says one thing but Russian media says the opposite, you shouldn't be trusting the Russian media. Treating anything by Noam Chomsky as a good thing to follow is pretty laughable though. Also it appears your post was flagged and deleted.

Swallowing the American consensus after the Iraq War et al. is more laughable then being a Chomsky fan.

Agree about the Russian media, they do a cheap imitation of Western narrative building journalism and are far more clumsy about telegraphing their agenda.

Re: Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly uprising

#98

Post by pjc50 » Thu, Jan 06, 2022, 1:38 PM UTC

ginko wrote: post #51

wheelerof4te wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pray tell, what exactly happened on 6th of January outside the Capitol? Why some people are allowed to fight corruption, but others aren't? Isn't the US lobiying another word for corruption?

That was another spontaneous rebellion. If anything it proves grandparent's point.

It was organized in advance on social media. Some people even had t-shirts printed. It may have been "headless", in that it's difficult to identify organizers, but it wasn't entirely spontaneous.

It remains an open question as to whether any of the posters on social media talking up the idea to protest at the capitol, or the mysterious person with the hoodie and bag of pipe bombs, were sponsored by overseas enemies of the US. There is as yet no hard evidence for this. https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/jan-mystery-pipe-bombs-night...

Re: Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly uprising

#99

Post by kingofkyiv » Thu, Jan 06, 2022, 1:38 PM UTC

thejackgoode wrote: post #89

patrec wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you don’t want to be on the opposite side of this treatment. How high is the risk, if you make an effort to behave well?

Low, but it’s quite a skill. Referenced here “bald and bankrupt” is an expert in “behaving well”, I am still amazed by his skills to be honest

That is only on camera. He has been kicked off almost every other platform except YouTube. Visa, Uber, PayPal among others all kicked him off. Off camera he has been exposed as a debased sexual predator. Anyone interested can find the whole drama exposing him by searching reddit, his name, and similar terms to what I discussed.

Re: Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly uprising

#100

Post by mrighele » Thu, Jan 06, 2022, 1:39 PM UTC

snickerer wrote: post #22

I traveled many post-Soviet countries in the past years with my old camping car. My personal impressions in Kazakhstan were frightening. A deeply corrupt state, much worse than Russia. Aggressive armed bandits in police uniform tried to rob me several times. Kazakhstan is true mafia state where every part of the regime tries to enrich itself at the expanse of the people. In contrast to the rich oil elite there are th…

> But why is such a dysfunctional dictatorship so stable? Why did it last for three decades? The situation is very similar to Azerbaijan

My bet is natural resources.If i remember correctly Kazakhstan is the biggest uranium producer in the world. With big natural resources, you don't need a solid economy supported by a state of law to keep the regime running. Something similar can be said for Azerbaijan.

The trick is to keep regular people calm by letting them have enough of the cake so that they don't revolt, but sometimes the money flow reduces, or the ruling elite becomes too greedy, and the problems starts. That's what may be happening here.