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Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

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Re: Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

#331

Post by bagacrap »

minhazm wrote: post #304
ahtihn wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you're saying the only reason that Chrome isn't more dominant is that some consumers cannot use it because of Apple and somehow that's a good thing? If iOS users would switch to Chrome if given the chance, isn't that a sign that they are currently worse off?

> If iOS users would switch to Chrome if given the chance They already have the option to switch to Chrome on iOS. It's not like most iOS users know that Chrome on iOS is just a re-skinned Safari. They would use Chrome if Safari was insufficient for their needs or Chrome had some compelling feature they wanted. I have Chrome installed on my phone but it's so I can use the password manager, but I still prefer to use S…

Perhaps the fact that Chrome's limited to being a reskinned safari is the reason it doesn't have a compelling feature they want.

Re: Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

#332

Post by mynameisash »

Since I have a hard time staying emotionally invested in this (I'm as frustrated with the state of tech as everyone else), I just want to share the first thing that came to mind when I read this headline, a quote from Catch-22:

"His specialty was alfalfa, and he made a good thing out of not growing any. The government paid him well for not growing any. The government paid him well for every bushel of alfalfa he did not grow. The more alfalfa he did not grow, the more money the government gave him, and he spent every penny he didn't earn on new land to increase the amount of alfalfa he did not produce. Major Major's father worked without rest at not growing alfalfa. On long winter evenings he remained indoors and did not mend harness, and he sprang out of bed at the crack of noon every day just to make certain that the chores would not be done. He invested in land wisely and soon was not growing more alfalfa than any other man in the country."

Re: Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

#333

Post by jolux »

ahtihn wrote: post #287
labcomputer wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? One of the few things keeping the creeping Google Chrome monopoly in check is bad for the consumer and bad for the market? I, for one, am happy that Google isn't able to unilaterally dictate the next generation of web standards.

So you're saying the only reason that Chrome isn't more dominant is that some consumers cannot use it because of Apple and somehow that's a good thing? If iOS users would switch to Chrome if given the chance, isn't that a sign that they are currently worse off?

No, iOS users can already use Chrome, they just can't use Blink. The difference is whether Google can leverage their developer base to drive people to Chrome without having to provide a superior product to the consumer. Today developers have to support WebKit to get iOS users, instead of just throwing Safari users a popup that says "fuck you, download Chrome" like they do on desktop. I think it's at least arguable that many would prefer to do that than continue to support WebKit.

Re: Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

#334

Post by bagacrap »

acoard wrote: post #275
asjdflakjsdf wrote: post #256

Slighlty off topic but has anyone else noticed the following trend on HN recently? Post == Article Critical of Google Top Comment === Plays down the severity of said criticism The upvotes don't seem to have much correlation between the post title and the comments. I wonder is such behavior caused by certain UI features on this site/app, or are comments graded differently?

The top comment on HN for any given topic is usually contrarian. It's in our cultural DNA. Perhaps the effect is intensified for some topics like tech giants — I haven't noticed — but keep an eye out and you'll see it happening everywhere. I have a hazy memory of even seeing this effect on HN given a proper name at some point in the past. As to why , I think it's largely cultural or found in personality traits that t…

does this mean hners prefer expressing their opinion by picking apart strawman arguments? It's certainly one way to start a conversation. "I'm going to upvote this article because it gives me a chance to debunk the argument."

Re: Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

#335

Post by stale2002 »

tshaddox wrote: post #271
labcomputer wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? One of the few things keeping the creeping Google Chrome monopoly in check is bad for the consumer and bad for the market? I, for one, am happy that Google isn't able to unilaterally dictate the next generation of web standards.

Almost any time anyone brings up accusations of anticompetitive behavior against Apple for the iOS ecosystem, notice that what they’re saying is “in order to make the smartphone market more competitive and give customers more choice, Apple should be forced to make their smartphone offerings less distinguishable from Android, the only other smartphone ecosystem.”

No, they should not force everyone's smartphones to be like a different smartphone.

Instead they should allow users to do what they want with their own device.

That way everyone gets what they want, with the device that they own.

Re: Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

#336

Post by voltagedivider »

hetspookjee wrote: post #43
tut-urut-utut wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know why you get downvotes, this is true, at least for iOS. There's no way a user can add a new search engine, they can only choose one of the five choices.

I'm so happy that Apple keeps me safe of dangerous search engines. /s I don't get this logic, honestly. What is the point of not being able to add any and all search engines to Apple?

No post body was provided.

Re: Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

#337

Post by sixothree »

wutbrodo wrote: post #240
Lio wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

#5 is the key point to my mind. For example, you can’t just add new search engines to iOS Safari with just a URL. There are a few alternatives to Google but there’s no easy way for a new entrant to get in there. EDIT: Interesting. I’m picking up downvotes for this, is there some way to achieve this (other than jailbreaking) I’ve missed?

> EDIT: Interesting. I’m picking up downvotes for this, is there some way to achieve this (other than jailbreaking) I’ve missed? Downvote patterns on HN are the most lunatic of any I've seen, including on much lower-quality fora. I wouldn't try to fit a model to it.

I've often assumed HN is brigaded by some of the larger corporations. Whenever there is a negative article about google, the comment sections seem to fill with glowing reviews and whataboutsisms. During the Roku Google battle, the comment sections were chock full of the same critique of rokue over and over again. It seemed fairly obvious there.

I just assume that's what's going on here.

Re: Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

#338

Post by Animats »

adam_arthur wrote: post #195
sovnade wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are we really talking about China promoting competition in the context of search results?

This is an article about allegations of anti-competitive behavior, and China has just spent a year enacting many new rules to foster competition among their tech companies. In many areas they went too far, and their approach to enacting the rules led to mass, unnecessary fear, but the spirit behind a lot of the changes was good. e.g. Alibaba can't ban links to competitors within their social apps. Apple does not allo…

The government of China does not want non state-owned companies to become so large and powerful that they can push back against the government. They don't want any institution powerful enough to push back - not a religion, not a publisher, not a political movement, not a business. All of those have faced breakups and shutdowns for years.

The humorous version.[1]

The network effect is so strong in some areas that you tend to end up with a monopoly or near-monopoly. This isn't good for either a communist or a capitalist society.

The US tends toward oligopoly. Three big banks, three big cell phone companies, three big drugstore chains, four big meat packers. In tech, the magic number seems to be two. Two big search engines, two big smartphone platforms, two big desktop systems, two big auction providers, two big social networks.

[1] https://twitter.com/lillianmli/status/1478742997839740928

Re: Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

#339

Post by [deleted] »

judge2020 wrote: post #170
Bombthecat wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most other search engines use Google under the hut anyway.. I'm wondering sind quite a whole, when Google will block them..

Only Startpage uses Google, to my knowledge, as there isn’t an API you can enable to start getting Google’s search results (without entering into talks with their sales / exec team). Bing does, though, and that’s why Brave and DuckDuckGo use Bing under the hood a lot.

[deleted]

Re: Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

#340

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

ipaddr wrote: post #305
pwinnski wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have eight options available to me in mobile safari other than using bookmarks to use any search engine that exists. It is easy to conceive of reasons why a company would not want to enable native UI elements to rely on external services without having vetted those services or established a relationship with them for recourse in the event of issues. It is harder--though not impossible--to conceive of ways to avoid…

That doesn't make sense. Why would someone who knows how to find a different search engine, change the setting be part of the group of people who are new or otherwise clueless? Apple should provide the option.

They'd be doing it because Shmaleksandr O'Kogan built a Google wrapper with a cool This Is Your Digital Life feature. After Cambridge Analytica, it's pretty hard to believe that user opt-in is an effective defense against data privacy scandals.
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