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Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

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Re: Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

#271

Post by tshaddox »

labcomputer wrote: post #259
onion2k wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope it is, because the alternative is that they're being allowed to get away with something that's against the law, bad for the free market, and anti-consumer.

Really? One of the few things keeping the creeping Google Chrome monopoly in check is bad for the consumer and bad for the market? I, for one, am happy that Google isn't able to unilaterally dictate the next generation of web standards.

Almost any time anyone brings up accusations of anticompetitive behavior against Apple for the iOS ecosystem, notice that what they’re saying is “in order to make the smartphone market more competitive and give customers more choice, Apple should be forced to make their smartphone offerings less distinguishable from Android, the only other smartphone ecosystem.”

Re: Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

#273

Post by fsflover »

zepto wrote: post #269
fsflover wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing is impossible. However everyone agrees that Apple created a walled garden which is hard to escape. Try to use their watches without an iPhone.

> However everyone agrees that Apple created a walled garden which is hard to escape. An obviously false statement. > Try to use their watches without an iPhone. Their watches are an iPhone accessory advertised as requiring an iPhone in order to work. Anyone who buys one thinking otherwise has been misinformed by someone other than Apple, and can return it to the store for a full refund. Then they can buy one of many…

>> However everyone agrees that Apple created a walled garden which is hard to escape.

>An obviously false statement.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Apple_Inc.#Accusa...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closed_platform#Aspects

> Their watches are an iPhone accessory advertised as requiring an iPhone in order to work.

Not in their video ads. Also, at https://www.apple.com/watch/ it's buried at the end of the tiny font.

Re: Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

#274

Post by sosborn »

Closi wrote: post #169
Doctor_Fegg wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm honestly not seeing the difference you're drawing between "web searches" and "instant suggestions". If I type some characters into a search box, and the phone displays the title and domain of a website that it thinks I might be looking for, that counts as a "web search" to me. iOS Safari does that using an Apple-powered web index. But whatever.

The difference is the index size and generality for me - for instance I can search "lkasdjfai" in Google and it will show me the one time that someone once said that on Flickr. Siri only needs to return a result when it thinks its got a worthwhile result to show, it won't search all documents to find the phrase I want (and returns nothing if I search lkasdjfai, and falls back to Google results). It never even says "s…

You should search "lkasdjfai" now :)

Re: Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

#275

Post by acoard »

asjdflakjsdf wrote: post #256

Slighlty off topic but has anyone else noticed the following trend on HN recently? Post == Article Critical of Google Top Comment === Plays down the severity of said criticism The upvotes don't seem to have much correlation between the post title and the comments. I wonder is such behavior caused by certain UI features on this site/app, or are comments graded differently?

The top comment on HN for any given topic is usually contrarian. It's in our cultural DNA. Perhaps the effect is intensified for some topics like tech giants — I haven't noticed — but keep an eye out and you'll see it happening everywhere.

I have a hazy memory of even seeing this effect on HN given a proper name at some point in the past.

As to why, I think it's largely cultural or found in personality traits that techies and hackers often have. Most us techies have a desire to "well, actually", even if we know it's rude and have learned to suppress or positively channel that urge. But at the end of the day, by proving something wrong, however pedantic, we get to prove we're smart. That's why the percentage of pedantry is probably higher on here and Wikipedia than on TikTok and Snapchat.

Re: Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

#276

Post by Someone »

littlecranky67 wrote: post #22
dpark wrote: post #17

”The complaint claims that the means used to effectuate the non-compete agreement included; (1) Google would share it's search profits with Apple; (2) Apple would give preferential treatment to Google for all Apple devices; (3) regular secret meetings between the executives of both companies; (4) annual multi-billion-dollar payments by Google to Apple not to compete in the search business; (5) suppression of the comp…

> "Google pays Apple to be the default search provider" If that is the case they might not act anti-competetive but, rumours are [0] Apple received up to $20Bn per year in this deal. It is hard to believe that this payment is just for being the default search engine. I strongly suspect that Apple also agrees to not build their own search engine as long as this deal is on - and if that is the case, there will be a str…

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/05/18/how-does-google-make-money-a...:

“Search is Google’s most lucrative unit. In 2020, the company generated $104 billion in “search and other” revenues”

iOS users reportedly are bringing in above average ad revenues. So, I do not rule out they’re worth $30 billion of that. If so, “up to $20 billion” could be a reasonable deal for Google. It still brings in loads of memory and deprives the competition (e.g. Microsoft) from those valuable ad targets.

If that really is $20 billion, it also seems Google is willing to give Apple a cut of over (or at least about) 30% of the revenues they make on iOS, though. Would that make an argument for Apple in their disputes over their 30% cut on app revenues?

Re: Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

#277

Post by intrasight »

tut-urut-utut wrote: post #33
Lio wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

#5 is the key point to my mind. For example, you can’t just add new search engines to iOS Safari with just a URL. There are a few alternatives to Google but there’s no easy way for a new entrant to get in there. EDIT: Interesting. I’m picking up downvotes for this, is there some way to achieve this (other than jailbreaking) I’ve missed?

I don't know why you get downvotes, this is true, at least for iOS. There's no way a user can add a new search engine, they can only choose one of the five choices.

I guess I work differently as I always nav to the home page of the site where I wish to do a search. So I "add a search engine" by adding a bookmark.

Re: Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

#279

Post by tiredofU2 »

hetspookjee wrote: post #43
tut-urut-utut wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know why you get downvotes, this is true, at least for iOS. There's no way a user can add a new search engine, they can only choose one of the five choices.

I'm so happy that Apple keeps me safe of dangerous search engines. /s I don't get this logic, honestly. What is the point of not being able to add any and all search engines to Apple?

On my device I can goto www.domain.com

What’s the point in hiding how it works behind a GUI widget?

If you just want to abstract everything behind the least UX possible, use curl to browse the web.

Watch them hide everything behind UI and all the tech nerds complain they can’t see how anything works then!

It’s IT people whining their way into closed systems with their circular back n forth; open source/diy or closed and they do it all for me!

There is no middle ground.

Re: Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

#280

Post by AlbertCory »

Most of the comments talk about the ease, or lack of it, of adding a different search engine to Safari. I'm sure Apple would love for everyone to focus on that, and then they can make a big noise about settling the suit by allowing more choice.

I think the complainants are really asking "why don't they do Apple Search, just as they now do Apple Maps, i.e. their own search?"

How would this make Google unhappy and willing to pay billions to prevent it? They could buy DDG or Bing or some other product to get a head start, and then pour their limitless $$$ into improving it. It might not succeed any more than Apple Maps has, but then, a $3T competitor is not to be taken lightly.

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