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Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

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Re: Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

#231

Post by mholm »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #156
netcan wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're not required to enter the search market. But, the revenue Apple get from the deal/trust with Google is better than MSFT or Yahoo ever got by competing with them. It's also easy, risk free and pure profit. So, the deal essentially ensures that Apple will not compete. Apple now also have an interest in maintaining their (alleged) trust. It's now in both parties interest to maintain Google's dominance of the spa…

> If Apple couldn't make money by funneling user to Google, they might prefer to just suppress ads. Apple did implement content blockers to block ads. I do not see ads when I use Safari in iOS or macOS.

Google is not concerned much with the ability to block ads, but whether it is default. The vast majority of users do not install content blockers.

Re: Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

#232

Post by jaywalk »

zuminator wrote: post #205
littlecranky67 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Google pays Apple to be the default search provider" If that is the case they might not act anti-competetive but, rumours are [0] Apple received up to $20Bn per year in this deal. It is hard to believe that this payment is just for being the default search engine. I strongly suspect that Apple also agrees to not build their own search engine as long as this deal is on - and if that is the case, there will be a str…

I think it's very possible that the payment is just for being the default search engine. Because one alternative is that Apple picks another company to be the default search engine. And suddenly Google has lost the most affluent group of consumers and has gained a major competitor. They would pay almost any amount to prevent that from happening. I don't think Apple would want to make itself the default. That would ju…

> I don't think Apple would want to make itself the default. That would just invite all kinds of regulatory scrutiny

Doesn't seem to have stopped Google with Android.

> would conflict with their pro privacy image.

How so? I'd argue that it would enhance it, because they could advertise that the default AppleSearch protects your privacy better than Google.

Re: Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

#233

Post by nonameiguess »

bufferoverflow wrote: post #220
0xB31B1B wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Defaults matter, and defaults encode the behavioral choices of like 80% of users. The downstream effects of this are that the default options have the most support. Its totally rational to complain about a bad default option.

80%? I think it's over 99%. Very few people would install a custom browser on mobile, most go with the default.

I highly doubt that, since it would imply 99% of users are using Samsung Internet on Samsung devices rather than Chrome, which doesn't seem to be true. If iOS users are largely using Safari, it's because Safari is actually a good enough browser that it isn't worth switching.

Re: Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

#234

Post by adam_arthur »

netcan wrote: post #91
streamofdigits wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the "market" seems to be betting that these monopolies will persist more or less exactly as they are (see eg the 3 trillion apple valuation that is really an unfathomable number unless you condition that basically the entire US economy will be co-controlled by those entities) so it seems to me that disastrously bad regulation has created self-sustaining monsters. which market worshiping politician would dare burst th…

Good question. Reminds me of the "housing affordability" question. If politicians had a magic wand that turns a city with $1m median house prices into a $250k one...

An easy way around that is upzoning. Then a house that's worth $1m could be turned into 4 houses worth 500k each.

That way homeowners make more money and housing becomes cheaper at the same time.

Depending on the context of course..

Re: Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

#235

Post by onion2k »

stickfigure wrote: post #197
onion2k wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's exactly the same. I have no idea how they're able to get away with it.

Perhaps your understanding of antitrust law is flawed.

I hope it is, because the alternative is that they're being allowed to get away with something that's against the law, bad for the free market, and anti-consumer.

Re: Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

#236

Post by jaywalk »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #177
littlecranky67 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, and iPhones are also more common in wealthier people. Worked on a Project once where our target audience was medical doctors in Germany, and we had >50% iOS users on based our user-agent metrics.

Curious how you accurately got that figure knowing how draconic Germans are on protecting their privacy, I highly doubt they're cool with knowing that as doctors they're being tracked for some app targeting. But yeah, anecdotally, just from visiting their practices, I also noticed most doctors in Austria tend to be in the Apple ecosystem for private use, but their practices and the clinics tend to be Windows.

Collecting the user agent string is one of the most basic forms of web analytics. It doesn't necessarily have anything to do with "targeting" or violating privacy in any way, so it's strange that you brought it up in such a way.

Re: Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

#237

Post by pwinnski »

artificialLimbs wrote: post #203
MomoXenosaga wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In fairness you don't have to use Safari.

You do on iOS, even if you use "Firefox".

No, you don't have to use Safari, which is limited to eight search engines. You can use Firefox, which allows more search engines. Yes, its renderer is the same, but it is different software, and this isn't a thread about the renderer.

Re: Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

#239

Post by vngzs »

Lio wrote: post #24
dpark wrote: post #17

”The complaint claims that the means used to effectuate the non-compete agreement included; (1) Google would share it's search profits with Apple; (2) Apple would give preferential treatment to Google for all Apple devices; (3) regular secret meetings between the executives of both companies; (4) annual multi-billion-dollar payments by Google to Apple not to compete in the search business; (5) suppression of the comp…

#5 is the key point to my mind. For example, you can’t just add new search engines to iOS Safari with just a URL. There are a few alternatives to Google but there’s no easy way for a new entrant to get in there. EDIT: Interesting. I’m picking up downvotes for this, is there some way to achieve this (other than jailbreaking) I’ve missed?

Some non-default browsers (e.g., Snowhaze, Firefox) support adding new search engines. However, if you highlight and "look up" a word on-page, the search link will always take you to the OS-default search engine.

Re: Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

#240

Post by wutbrodo »

Lio wrote: post #24
dpark wrote: post #17

”The complaint claims that the means used to effectuate the non-compete agreement included; (1) Google would share it's search profits with Apple; (2) Apple would give preferential treatment to Google for all Apple devices; (3) regular secret meetings between the executives of both companies; (4) annual multi-billion-dollar payments by Google to Apple not to compete in the search business; (5) suppression of the comp…

#5 is the key point to my mind. For example, you can’t just add new search engines to iOS Safari with just a URL. There are a few alternatives to Google but there’s no easy way for a new entrant to get in there. EDIT: Interesting. I’m picking up downvotes for this, is there some way to achieve this (other than jailbreaking) I’ve missed?

> EDIT: Interesting. I’m picking up downvotes for this, is there some way to achieve this (other than jailbreaking) I’ve missed?

Downvote patterns on HN are the most lunatic of any I've seen, including on much lower-quality fora. I wouldn't try to fit a model to it.

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