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Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

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Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#891

Post by luckydata »

deepsun wrote: post #870
ineedasername wrote: post #792

Ironic that her board of directors-- one of the most praised aspects of Theranos-- probably hurt her when it came to going after her with criminal charges. These were some of the most well-connected people in the country, and making them look like fools did her no favors. Once it was clear this wouldn't go away quietly, I'd bet they pushed hard to ensure criminal prosecution. (which I think she deserved anyway.) Espe…

Tim Draper was telling everyone that Holmes did no wrong. Last time I checked, a large poster with Elisabet Holmes was still present at the back of Hero City (Draper's accelerator, across the street from Draper University).

Tim must be the single human being holding the most incorrect opinions on the face of the planet. I've never heard him being right about anything, it's kind of amazing really.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#892

Post by josho »

jiggawatts wrote: post #553
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Fake it till you make it" originally meant behaving as an established company would, as opposed to presenting yourself as an upstart startup without a lot of customers. Basically: Professional website, formal company structure, normal business sales practices, having people available to answer the phones, and so on. You still had to do the work and deliver the results, but the goal was to overcome hesitancy to use s…

It's fairly common to see an element of outright fakery before the hopeful -but-not-guaranteed "till you make it". A coworker was using a mobile app from a startup offering to do "receipt OCR using AI/ML" when in fact they were sending most of the scanned pictures to a call-center in India to be manually entered. They hadn't yet figured out the fancy image recognition algorithm, so they were just throwing AWS Mechani…

> That's not so different ethically to what Theranos was doing

No. One is we know we can do OCR, we know we can do AI, it's just an engineering effort to put those pieces together. The risk is schedule risk.

Theranos was hard science. They did not know if they could do what they fraudulently claimed they had already done. They needed scientific discoveries to deliver. The risk was can the necessary technology be invented.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#893

Post by WalterBright »

bumby wrote: post #767
geophile wrote: post #747

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there is a pretty sharp line separating what Holmes tried, and what legitimate startups do. What she claimed had no basis in reality. It's Borat trying to patent a hoverboard, just like in Back to the Future, and telling the VC that he "needs to come up with the science" ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXuDhejxz_c ). Except that Holmes was worse, claiming that she had the science. And she insulated herself…

I haven't read Carreyrou's book, but do you think age and stereotypical gender roles played a part in the swindle? In other words, did the "old powerful men" let their guard down more because she was a young female?

I would not underestimate the powerful effect of a young, attractive woman flattering an old man.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#894

Post by astura »

bb101 wrote: post #786
ferdowsi wrote: post #737

I'm loving reading through all of the sickening puff pieces that business/tech journalists put out about her and Theranos. It's funny to think back to 2015 and the hagiographical void still left in tech journo hearts after Steve Jobs died. https://www.inc.com/ilan-mochari/elizabeth-holmes-theranos-i... > How Elizabeth Holmes Became America's New Entrepreneurial Icon > She represents the part of entrepreneurship that…

I do feel sorry for her in a way. She was riding a treadmill of expectations. Started off slowly, probably thinking "yeah, we can do this" and by the time the treadmill was moving at light speed, it was too late to get off. Even TED has removed her talk from YouTube. What responsibility do the media bear when their shallow hype turns out to be false and damaging to all parties?

Please actually read the case files and evidence presented by the state, your characterization of her is incorrect. The jury's verdict confirms that.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#895

Post by r00fus »

JohnJamesRambo wrote: post #753
ferdowsi wrote: post #737

I'm loving reading through all of the sickening puff pieces that business/tech journalists put out about her and Theranos. It's funny to think back to 2015 and the hagiographical void still left in tech journo hearts after Steve Jobs died. https://www.inc.com/ilan-mochari/elizabeth-holmes-theranos-i... > How Elizabeth Holmes Became America's New Entrepreneurial Icon > She represents the part of entrepreneurship that…

Gell-Man Amnesia Effect in full effect. Will we remember when we read the next PR piece/pump and dump disguised as journalism?

I will never forgive Bloomberg for their atrocious handling of Apple/Amazon/Supermicro "hacking" case where they didn't retract their claims despite no proof or evidence. I never cite that publication, it's toxic to me.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#896

Post by socrates1998 »

I am glad she was found guilty, but there are a few concerns. First, she was only convicted of lying to her investors, not the actual patients, which is laughable.

Second, she is supposed to get up to 20 years for EACH of the counts (they will be served concurrently so she won't get 80 years). And I am curious as to how much time she will actually serve.

Third, what kind of sociopath has a baby in the middle of a trial where she could go to jail and not see the kid for years???

Fourth, what kind of person meets her, googles her, thinks "it's all bullshit", then proceeds to get in a relationship with her AND have a kid with her. Man this woman is a con artist.

She should get 20 years for the lies she spread and damage potentially did. Messing with people's blood tests for CANCER. So wrong.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#897

Post by josho »

irthomasthomas wrote: post #765

"FDA has concluded that the Theranos test and technology is eligible for waiver under CLIA. The waiver means FDA determined the Theranos test and technology is reliable and accurate..." That aged well. https://web.archive.org/web/20160320011355/https://www.thera...

This exposes the weaknesses in our current system. From the article "Theranos provided data". Science is about reproducibility. Evidently the FDA isn't responsible for reproducing the science from companies and instead takes them at their word.

I think it shows that generally speaking our regulatory bodies need to evolve. They need a quality control program that periodically audits the information provided to them and conduct their own independent review/replication of the experiments. If reproducibility isn't possible then severely punish companies that are found to be misrepresenting their data.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#898

Post by KaiserPro »

evancoop wrote: post #715

The relevant detail, in my mind, is not whether Holmes deserves punishment, or even how much. The relevant detail is how the judge ultimately sentences Holmes, and more importantly, on what basis the judge selects the upper or lower range of possible sentencing outcomes. Considering that BS, stretching of capabilities, and so on are commonplace in the startup world, the point isn't whether Holmes crossed the line (sh…

> There's the easy story: "Young, ambitious wunderkind founder falls from grace." And the hard story: "Here's what might be relevant for future founders." There's the easy story: "Young, ambitious wunderkind founder falls from grace." And the hard story: "Here's what might be relevant for future founders."

I don't think thats quite correct.

Holmes committed fraud, the part that seemed to sink her was attaching other company's names to literature.

However most of us would have assumed the bit that _should_ have nailed her and a lot of the executive committee is the industrial fraud of individual, vulnerable patients.

THeranos was only able to commit this fraud because of the breathless, non critical PR pumped out by tech "journalism"

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#899

Post by AtlasBarfed »

ferdowsi wrote: post #737

I'm loving reading through all of the sickening puff pieces that business/tech journalists put out about her and Theranos. It's funny to think back to 2015 and the hagiographical void still left in tech journo hearts after Steve Jobs died. https://www.inc.com/ilan-mochari/elizabeth-holmes-theranos-i... > How Elizabeth Holmes Became America's New Entrepreneurial Icon > She represents the part of entrepreneurship that…

LOL, um, you are on a silicon valley startup site?

The valuations of practically every company that comes out of here until it "goes public" is almost entirely based on this hype media infrastructure, or at least are dependent on somewhere between four and eight 0s in those company's valuations.

This is a parable about sociopaths in society. They are tolerable as long as they are usable fools: useful for war, useful for flogging troops, play within certain rules. But there's a line, and you cross it, you risk revealing all the other vampire sociopaths that are controlling society.

I have no sympathy for this postmodern uncanny valley AI-generated faildaughter CEO person-like matrix construct with empty, flaccid eyes. But she's a fascinating mirror into the CEO sausage factory.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#900

Post by trutannus »

socrates1998 wrote: post #896

I am glad she was found guilty, but there are a few concerns. First, she was only convicted of lying to her investors, not the actual patients, which is laughable. Second, she is supposed to get up to 20 years for EACH of the counts (they will be served concurrently so she won't get 80 years). And I am curious as to how much time she will actually serve. Third, what kind of sociopath has a baby in the middle of a tri…

> what kind of sociopath has a baby in the middle of a trial where she could go to jail and not see the kid for years

The same sort who would lie to cancer patients about their blood test results, and very probably lead a few to their deaths along the way? Sounds exactly like the Holmes we've all come to know.

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