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Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

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Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If “proven beyond a reasonable doubt” keeps leading to bad outcomes, maybe that’s not the right standard.

That is a dangerous precedent to remove. Certainly we don't want to replace judges and juries with Twitter polls.

Sure, but if the precedent isn’t generating justice, then it’s worth considering alternatives. There is no holy scripture which says proof beyond a reasonable doubt is the correct way to run a justice system.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#292

It blows my mind that she was found guilty for defrauding investors, but not guilty for defrauding patients about their test results. Investors know that every dollar they put into a company could disappear, it's why startups get capital from investors and not bank loans. But a patient does not expect for their blood test results to be completely wrong. Her tests weren't giving false-negatives or false-positives, the…

They had a fully functional lab though, it just wasn't using Theranos' devices. This is what they did to Wallgreens, they sold them on the idea that they would have theranos machines in-store, but instead what they did was do IV blood draws (calling it a comparison check) .. and then would just process the samples the same way as everyone else using standard equipment. People were getting good results because Therano…

They were using traditional siemens for most tests but were doing some tests with a fingerprick that they diluted - like their PSA test sometimes coming back super high for cis women, indicating that they had prostate cancer.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#293

It blows my mind that she was found guilty for defrauding investors, but not guilty for defrauding patients about their test results. Investors know that every dollar they put into a company could disappear, it's why startups get capital from investors and not bank loans. But a patient does not expect for their blood test results to be completely wrong. Her tests weren't giving false-negatives or false-positives, the…

Don’t forget she is still facing 3 counts that were declared mistrialed. She could get longer.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#294

This will sound weird but I am a collector of swag from large companies that have collapsed due to anything from mismanagement to outright fraud. While we're a rare breed there are others like me out there. Still, even with this oddly specific marketplace being small, let me tell you, the Theranos swag market is hot right now (check eBay if you're curious). Wish I had gone big on this one earlier, because I have a fe…

I do have two refrigerator magnets from Webvan, which died in 2001. Was a pretty cool service while it lasted.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#295

It blows my mind that she was found guilty for defrauding investors, but not guilty for defrauding patients about their test results. Investors know that every dollar they put into a company could disappear, it's why startups get capital from investors and not bank loans. But a patient does not expect for their blood test results to be completely wrong. Her tests weren't giving false-negatives or false-positives, the…

>> Investors know that every dollar they put into a company could disappear, it's why startups get capital from investors and not bank loans. The above does not excuse fraud. Investors know their investments are risky, but that does not give you permission to deliberately lie or mislead, with an intent to deceive the potential investor. For example, if you tell investors that you anticipate getting $50M in new contra…

[deleted]

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#296
post #266

It blows my mind that she was found guilty for defrauding investors, but not guilty for defrauding patients about their test results. Investors know that every dollar they put into a company could disappear, it's why startups get capital from investors and not bank loans. But a patient does not expect for their blood test results to be completely wrong. Her tests weren't giving false-negatives or false-positives, the…

> It blows my mind that she was found guilty for defrauding investors, but not guilty for defrauding patients about their test results. my thoughts exactly. i'm woefully underread on the whole situation but something is weird and different about it. one thing that does jump to mind is that the investor list and board composition isn't what i'm used to seeing for stem ventures. i can imagine that perhaps they're less…

My impression is that the defense put the onus on the lab directors etc and that she didn't know what was going on. I don't buy that, but the jury is supposed to go on only evidence presented at the trial, so I guess the defense did a good job.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#297
If she gets anything less than life in prison, it will effectively answer the question of "how many years of prison would you do for a billion dollars?". I'm guessing an absolute max of 5 in a minimum security white collar facility.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#299

This will sound weird but I am a collector of swag from large companies that have collapsed due to anything from mismanagement to outright fraud. While we're a rare breed there are others like me out there. Still, even with this oddly specific marketplace being small, let me tell you, the Theranos swag market is hot right now (check eBay if you're curious). Wish I had gone big on this one earlier, because I have a fe…

I worked at Lehman for a year around 1999/2000. While I was there, they handed out these plinths, I still have mine: https://imgur.com/a/NKnJh

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#300
post #27

Some founders "fake it till you make it", and this news should serve as a cautionary tale.

"Fake it till you make it" originally meant behaving as an established company would, as opposed to presenting yourself as an upstart startup without a lot of customers. Basically: Professional website, formal company structure, normal business sales practices, having people available to answer the phones, and so on. You still had to do the work and deliver the results, but the goal was to overcome hesitancy to use startups instead of established companies.

It didn't mean literally lying about your capabilities or accomplishments in order to garner more investment money.

That's not "fake it till you make it". That's just fraud. It's not really hard to distinguish between the two, despite the way some people are trying to merge the two definitions.

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