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Speaking Freely: Why I resigned from the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation

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Re: Speaking Freely: Why I resigned from the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation

#321

Post by DeWilde »

lazyasciiart wrote: post #169
xienze wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> putting a pronoun down is for the benefit of those conversing with you, so they don't have to wonder or get it wrong. The type of people concerned with being addressed by the "correct" pronouns will list them without being asked, believe me. And for the other 99.9% of people, it's pretty obvious what to use.

Maybe for you, but I don't know what pronoun to use to refer to someone named Xie that I have never met, and it's not exactly unusual for it to come up in email discussions.

If people feel that it is important to them they will make sure you know it. Otherwise if unsure maybe ask?

I don't feel the need to put the pronouns as I don't care about it and find it toxic that it is being peer pressured uppon me.

I also support anyone who wants to put their pronouns in the signature or whatever. If it is something important to them then I'll respect their choice, even if they go with something silly like Xor/Xir.

Re: Speaking Freely: Why I resigned from the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation

#322

Post by metabagel »

NikolaeVarius wrote: post #201
kbenson wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They hem and haw because some people care a lot and make a big deal if you get it wrong and it can have social consequences depending on where you live/work, etc, and if you repeatedly ignore what other people want to be called it can be seen as an act of aggression. In the current climate, people want to get it right for other people because either they don't want to be an asshole, they believe it's important, they'…

What else about myself do i have to actively advertise so that people are not afraid of talking to me.

You seem really obsessed about this, much more so than most people who might be in favor of supplying pronouns. I think that most people do it as a common courtesy. I generally don't, but it doesn't bother me if people do, and it doesn't hurt me in the slightest if someone asks me to supply my pronouns. My pronouns are "he/him". Not difficult at all.

Re: Speaking Freely: Why I resigned from the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation

#323

Post by dogleash »

CoastalCoder wrote: post #76
badRNG wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The strong opposition to diversity efforts has been a pretty common trait associated with the tech community/silicon valley. It seems reasonable that a subset of the culture that produced the work environment at Blizzard [1] or has historically rallied behind alt-right thought leaders would also be here on HN. Talk to any woman software engineer, I 100% guarantee they have multiple stories about dealing with a...spec…

> The strong opposition to diversity efforts has been a pretty common trait associated with the tech community/silicon valley. I'm surprised to hear that. My impression was that D&I initiatives are far more prevalent in tech/SV companies than elsewhere. I probably got that from personal experience + news about Google (Damore), Facebook, etc. But maybe in reality D&I has become commonplace in many U.S. companies, and…

>I'm surprised to hear that.

It's just an artifact of hacks trying to take a culture's temperature without going outside. Tech adjacent is only notable for being full of people who will talk about it in professional areas online.

If someones circles weren't internet-heavy before Eternal iPhone September, their politics don't get associated with their circles. They're just nameless or might as well be nameless wrongthinkers on $social_media_platform and/or not posting their views to social media in the first place.

Re: Speaking Freely: Why I resigned from the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation

#324

Post by boppo1 »

ameminator wrote: post #273
YZF wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Enemies? Sam has a lot of power. We've seen over the last few decades how speech influences a lot of Sams and completely changes society. Society is the sum of all Sams and Sams have a lot of power. Sam from around the block is the Sam that used to report or burn the witches in the 1500's. Now LGBTQ isn't necessarily the dearest topic to my heart, but freedom is and this is just one aspect of it. Racism and bigotry a…

If you believe in freedom of expression and of speech, it doesn't matter how much power Sam has, even if you disagree with what he says. I don't like or agree with white supremacists, but I consider the ACLU defense of their speech a monument to our civilization's respect of human rights.

> ACLU defense of their speech a monument to our civilization's respect of human rights.

Is there an argument from a landmark case or are you speaking gsnerally?

Re: Speaking Freely: Why I resigned from the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation

#325

Post by metabagel »

coolso wrote: post #55
NikolaeVarius wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At a previous job HR directly contacted me and told me to put my pronouns on my profile. I said sure and proceeded to ignore it. Fuck that shit

Good. This pronoun virtue signaling meme has gotta go. Or at least don’t censor us by limiting us to the ones Officially Approved by the Pronoun Establishment like Instagram and most other places do. If they can have custom pronouns, why can’t we? (The answer is because it would immediately undermine the “cause” by shedding light on just how silly but also how 1984-esque the concept is.)

I would think that virtue signaling is good. It sure sounds good.

"Virtue" means " Moral excellence and righteousness; goodness."

"Signaling" means "An indicator, such as a gesture or colored light, that serves as a means of communication."

So, basically if I'm morally excellent and I communicate that to you, that's a bad thing? Why is that? Is it because it makes you feel bad?

Same question about "woke". Like, "not asleep"? How is that bad?

I just feel like these terms are thoughtlessly bandied about. They're never really defined. They actually don't sound bad, but they're used in a pejorative context. It's just really strange.

Re: Speaking Freely: Why I resigned from the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation

#327

Post by __turbobrew__ »

nefitty wrote: post #123
CapitalistCartr wrote: post #30

Except at political groups to which I belong, I am almost always the left-most person in the room. The Lefts greatest weakness is an enthusiasm for splintering over small matters of doctrine. Identity politics, tribalism over principle, virtue signaling, whatever fad this is, it's deeply hurting progress.

Peter Thiel (gay man), Caitlyn Jenner (trans woman) and Kanye West (black man) all publicly support Donald Trump. It's not identity that's the issue, it's economic inequality. Even as part of marginalized groups, these people's vast wealth allowed them the luxury to support a man who did not have marginalized group's best interests in mind. If I was rich and wanted to take over a local government, I would channel my…

This is my take as well.

People — of all backgrounds — only want a stable comfortable life where they can pursue their interests and goals.

Identity/race politics are just a distraction to keep the low/middle class fighting amongst themselves while the upper classes rake in unprecedented amounts of wealth.

I believe that individuals are complex and unique and deserve to be treated as individuals instead of a member of an identity group.

I fear the day when I have to take a side in the identity/race war. In the past 2 years I have noticed that identity/race politics have entered my workplace. Luckily I haven’t had to take a side, but the day I am forced to utter a political incantation is the day I quit my job.

Re: Speaking Freely: Why I resigned from the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation

#328

Post by metabagel »

colechristensen wrote: post #111
coolso wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good. This pronoun virtue signaling meme has gotta go. Or at least don’t censor us by limiting us to the ones Officially Approved by the Pronoun Establishment like Instagram and most other places do. If they can have custom pronouns, why can’t we? (The answer is because it would immediately undermine the “cause” by shedding light on just how silly but also how 1984-esque the concept is.)

If someone wants to tell me pronouns they want to be referred to, sure, I’ll try to remember as long as they’re not asking for something extreme, but honestly I’m not that good with even names so… best effort. I would rather not give out pronouns and don’t really care how people refer to me though “they” in forums when my username is my real name does come off as a bit strange… though again, this is a trivial annoyan…

Yes, it's a trivial annoyance. That's the human, normal way of looking at this, not like it's some massive festering grievance as some people seem to feel.

Re: Speaking Freely: Why I resigned from the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation

#329

Post by 908B64B197 »

VictorPath wrote: post #285
CoastalCoder wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The strong opposition to diversity efforts has been a pretty common trait associated with the tech community/silicon valley. I'm surprised to hear that. My impression was that D&I initiatives are far more prevalent in tech/SV companies than elsewhere. I probably got that from personal experience + news about Google (Damore), Facebook, etc. But maybe in reality D&I has become commonplace in many U.S. companies, and…

> My impression was that D&I initiatives are far more prevalent in tech/SV companies than elsewhere Well of course, blacks in the US are over 12% of the population and are 12% of the L5s in FAANG companies. Which of course is not the case - less than 2% of Facebook's technical workers in the US are black, 3% of Google overall is black etc. It's clear that diversity is not prevalent at all in Google, Facebook etc.

> Well of course, blacks in the US are over 12% of the population and are 12% of the L5s in FAANG companies. Which of course is not the case - less than 2% of Facebook's technical workers in the US are black, 3% of Google overall is black etc. It's clear that diversity is not prevalent at all in Google, Facebook etc.

Is it? Keep in mind that the target hires for these companies are grads from serious CS programs. Are CS programs 12% blacks? Were they 15 years ago (when a now L5 graduated)?

It's like setting shop in Puerto Rico and favoring whites because, since Puerto Rico is part of the US and the US is ~55% white you should have that same proportion in your business.

The real question is, and that's an uncomfortable one, is why aren't we seeing enough minorities in serious CS programs.

Re: Speaking Freely: Why I resigned from the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation

#330

Post by peterdn »

john_moscow wrote: post #270
p_j_w wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>we have to be careful for example about using the right pronouns in order to accomodate the need of like a 0.% of the population Is this really a problem? It's a zero cost action.

It's not. It costs attention - and that's the primary battleground of the information society. To divert the masses attention from the goals that could help them unite.

How is it any different than remembering and using people's preferred names?
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