“it almost calls out for returning to the 90s: walled gardens aka Compuserve experience, dedicated devices for home-banking and standalone cameras.”
Were you actually around in the 90s? The internet was not easier to use then.
Ask HN: Why is today's Internet experience so user hostile?
191–200 of 383 posts
Re: Ask HN: Why is today's Internet experience so user hostile?
#192Businesses deceive themselves when they think they measure user satisfaction. There's a thing out there called "net promoter score." That's when somebody asks you "would you recommend our business to a friend?" It's based on a 2006 business book with the megalomaniacal title "The Ultimate Question." https://www.worldcat.org/title/ultimate-question-driving-goo... In theory it's a great idea. In theory it effectively c…
People who are successful in business are busy running businesses. People who aren't successful in business write gimmicky books about the "one trick" you need to know to run a successful business. Most business books are garbage.
Re: Ask HN: Why is today's Internet experience so user hostile?
#193Earlier quoted context omitted.
> What is this weird fascination with capitalism on HN? It's the one doing the data collecting in our lives.
Parent's point is that you'd be a lot less likely complain about even worse data collection if you lived in China, and it was done in the name of the "people" - but you wouldn't be quieter because you really believed it was for the people. You'd be quieter because you were scared to say things about the System. You're lucky to live in a System that pays you to have a public opinion about it.
The alternatives being worse doesn't make a critique of a system less valid. Yes, it's good that we have free political speech and yes, it's true that capitalism's incentives drive decisions like invasive data collection.
Re: Ask HN: Why is today's Internet experience so user hostile?
#194Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Ironically the "my mom" and "but my grandparents" angle is what has always been used to dumb down and introduce user-hostile patterns. Dumbed down and user-hostile are independent things. Dark patterns are being introduced for nefarious purposes. No one is explaining away things like "click to subscribe, wait 3 hours in a phone queue to unsubscribe" as required for "grandmothers" The software isn't stupid, it's int…
> hard wait time to unsubscribe It really is the grandmother excuse "you the user dont know what the unsubscribe button is doing, so we ask you to wait 3h and confirm 4 times because maybe you are clicking by mistake since you dont know where and what you are clicking".
No, it’s because it was A/B-tested with the result that the pattern retains more subscribers, which is good for KPI if not for the business.
Re: Ask HN: Why is today's Internet experience so user hostile?
#195When you’re paying rooms full of developers top 1% salaries, something’s gotta give.
Re: Ask HN: Why is today's Internet experience so user hostile?
#196Earlier quoted context omitted.
Oh boy, tell me how you do tax reports with the amazing experience of pen, paper and standing in a window. I bet you're outsourcing misery rather than avoiding it.
The government services dont show me any ads or dark patterns. How is it where you live? Does the IRS really try to trick you?
Heck yes they do!
Of course not “intentionally” but if you manage to have an even slightly complex tax situation and not get tricked and report something wrong, props to you!
Re: Ask HN: Why is today's Internet experience so user hostile?
#197Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't think anyone is directly blaming the users here. It is just a fact of life that a sizeable portion of users "accept" dark patterns, and PMs consider that as a sign of success. However I strongly doubt users are doing it by choice. IMO it's actually because of lack of choices, lack of knowledge or learned helplessness. That might be controversial, but to me the point is that A/B tests and KPIs are the wrong in…
> I don't think anyone is directly blaming the users here. The comment I'm replying to is LITERALLY blaming "normal users" for these problems.
Normal users, as they represent by definition the largest numbers, are necessary to enable the network effects on which the Internet companies rely, and as a result they also put other, reluctant users in a position of minority, the position of the 'unreasonable', the position of the grumpy old fart, the position of the burden to support.
The mass, thus the normal user, is indeed the enabler.
Re: Ask HN: Why is today's Internet experience so user hostile?
#198I think it is just part of the commercialization of the web, the same dynamics that happens everywhere where a firm with a good product/brand change it to increase cash flows or some other KPI. Though much more clear in consumer market, but also happen to rich, influential companies (think about the clients of Oracle).
This is very true, it reminds me of when Chip Wilson said LuLuLemon yoga pants are not meant for fat girls! https://dietsinreview.com/diet_column/11/no-fat-girls-allowe...
Please explain why you think a company should provide goods for people outside their target market? Is market segmentation frowned upon these days?
Re: Ask HN: Why is today's Internet experience so user hostile?
#199I think it's mainly your last reason. After the founders have cashed out, there's nobody left to care about user experience, because by then, most things are run by MBAs as dictated by shareholders. And shareholders don't care who suffers. They care purely about profits. The solution is to introduce laws to reign in "profits at the expense of others". When chemical companies were polluting the ground (superfund sites…
Profits at the expense of others is more or less the driving force of our entire economy. Not sure how you're going to legislate that away.
Re: Ask HN: Why is today's Internet experience so user hostile?
#200Humans are bad at understanding that infinite growth goes against the laws of nature. As numbers start to trail off, new ways have to be dreamed up whether it's a degration of offering to save money or new endeavours that have nothing to do with the core business.
Exponential growth, otoh, is quite a regular feature of nature. Rabbits boom and bust. Single cell algae transforms a newly formed pond within days, followed by exponential growth of organisms that like to feed on it.
Then our infinite growth economy is like an invasive species that has taken over the planet. Hunting resources to extinction, growing ever larger and all-encompassing, heating up our planet with its metabolic cycle of fossil fuel extraction and burning.