Tesla recalls nearly half a million Model 3 and Model S cars • Hacker News Board

Re: Tesla recalls nearly half a million Model 3 and Model S cars

#81

Post by na85 » Thu, Dec 30, 2021, 11:02 PM UTC

slg wrote: post #19

Just a reminder that cars are recalled all the time and the only reason you are seeing this article is because it is Tesla. Any other manufacturer and this would be a non-story especially on HN. Did Ford recalling 185k vehicles a couple days ago make the front page of HN? How about Toyota recalling 200k vehicles also a couple days ago?[2] Maybe Honda recalling 725k vehicles a month ago?[3] EDIT: Lots of people are ta…

>Any other manufacturer and this would be a non-story especially on HN.

Perhaps it's noteworthy due to Tesla's documented past behavior of playing fast and loose with safety, and quality assurance, coupled with Musk's arrogance in the media.

Re: Tesla recalls nearly half a million Model 3 and Model S cars

#82

Post by dqv » Thu, Dec 30, 2021, 11:03 PM UTC

walrus01 wrote: post #4

see also: Tesla ranks almost dead last on Consumer Reports reliability list https://www.sfgate.com/tech/article/Tesla-ranks-almost-dead-... https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/19/tesla-model-s-no-longer-reco... I hope this doesn't come across as excessively smug but I think my life, level of stress and personal finances are measurably improved by owning something that is closer to a $9000 Toyota Corolla and spending money o…

If I see my bestie in a Tessie, I will be happy for them, but much like you I'm OK with a more conservative choice until something like the Tesla EV's becomes the conservative choice.

Re: Tesla recalls nearly half a million Model 3 and Model S cars

#83

Post by lillecarl » Thu, Dec 30, 2021, 11:04 PM UTC

slg wrote: post #64

lillecarl wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well yes, but you seem to think it's unfair treatment whereas I think It's perfectly reasonable to treat them differently if they are different(Which they are). So we disagree as well.

I never said it was unfair. People are projecting a lot onto my comments here.

Before your edit many misinterpreted this, probably because the links you mention are not equal/close to equal and therefore not comparable to discuss.

Re: Tesla recalls nearly half a million Model 3 and Model S cars

#84

Post by expendablemtrst » Thu, Dec 30, 2021, 11:09 PM UTC

ericmay wrote: post #12

walrus01 wrote: post #4

see also: Tesla ranks almost dead last on Consumer Reports reliability list https://www.sfgate.com/tech/article/Tesla-ranks-almost-dead-... https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/19/tesla-model-s-no-longer-reco... I hope this doesn't come across as excessively smug but I think my life, level of stress and personal finances are measurably improved by owning something that is closer to a $9000 Toyota Corolla and spending money o…

I see this all the time but then if you want to buy a new Tesla you have to wait a year. And that is due to demand. The consumer reports reliability thing just seems like a meme at this point that doesn’t ring true for most people either in importance or reality. I can’t quite put my finger on why this meme is wrong but my intuition says it is.

It's not wrong. It's just that car buying is as much emotional decision making as it is rational.

I buy and ride motorcyles. I drive a car as well. By almost every measurable metric, the car is superior. Better braking, better turn speeds, better inclement weather handling, better protection against the elements, better cargo capacity, and I'm far better off in a car during a crash.

I still like bikes better. In part because there's a thrill in doing something needlessly stupid and dangerous; there's a joy in knowing that you're one just a single tiny mistake away from being killed or worse. When you're seeing the grey blur of pavement half an inch away from your elbows and knees, or the blur of a stone wall promising to quite literally rip your arm off at the shoulder if you dare get any closer. There is nothing else like it in the world.

You can't exactly put something like that in a spec sheet or mark it as a KPI though. For many Tesla owners there probably are dozens of defects and problems, but all of them you're willing to ignore because of an intangible affection. It doesn't make them wrong, it just means that their priorities are different then someone that might care more for something else.

Re: Tesla recalls nearly half a million Model 3 and Model S cars

#85

Post by FullyFunctional » Thu, Dec 30, 2021, 11:10 PM UTC

slg wrote: post #19

Just a reminder that cars are recalled all the time and the only reason you are seeing this article is because it is Tesla. Any other manufacturer and this would be a non-story especially on HN. Did Ford recalling 185k vehicles a couple days ago make the front page of HN? How about Toyota recalling 200k vehicles also a couple days ago?[2] Maybe Honda recalling 725k vehicles a month ago?[3] EDIT: Lots of people are ta…

Also, "recall" sounds like the cars have to physically move back to the factory. Reality: I took 10 sec to schedule a visit from a Mobile Technician who'll do the work in my driveway while I go on living my life.

Big non-issue.

Re: Tesla recalls nearly half a million Model 3 and Model S cars

#86

Post by electrondood » Thu, Dec 30, 2021, 11:11 PM UTC

deviantbit wrote: post #48

Quoted post unavailable.

In the Bay Area city where I live, during rush hour I can regularly count 60+ Teslas just walking around my block. I haven't heard of one such incident.

Re: Tesla recalls nearly half a million Model 3 and Model S cars

#87

Post by woodruffw » Thu, Dec 30, 2021, 11:13 PM UTC

ALittleLight wrote: post #63

woodruffw wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consumers tend to rate higher satisfactions with "luxury" goods (i.e., goods at premium prices, regardless of material quality or value) than they do with non-luxury goods. It occurs to me that that bias affects Tesla's reception as well.

Presumably the survey includes other luxury cars.

Certainly. The effect happens with all luxury items, and the report suggests that other luxury brands are similarly grouped at the top (and similarly have reported reliability issues).

Re: Tesla recalls nearly half a million Model 3 and Model S cars

#88

Post by Animats » Thu, Dec 30, 2021, 11:14 PM UTC

Since 1966, hood latches are required to be redundant in US vehicles. That's why, when you pop the hood, it just opens a bit, and then you have to go and release a hook or something from the front. This is because, in 1950s cars, hoods flying up suddenly were a thing. Often followed by a crash.

Double latches are required by 47 CFR 571. "A front opening hood which, in any open position, partially or completely obstructs a driver's forward view through the windshield must be provided with a second latch position on the hood latch system or with a second hood latch system. "[1] That's from 1966. In Teslas, the hood covers a storage space, and both both the primary and secondary latch are electrically controlled. It's not some big dumb spring-loaded hook. So it's higher risk for failure.

[1] https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/49/571.113

Re: Tesla recalls nearly half a million Model 3 and Model S cars

#89

Post by alamortsubite » Thu, Dec 30, 2021, 11:14 PM UTC

ghaff wrote: post #78

alamortsubite wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lack of rear visibility without a camera is a much more of an issue on newer cars; older cars, which make up the bulk of those "tens of millions", don't have such a serious problem.

That's fair. Even when I shopped for a car over a decade ago, it felt like some of the electronic safety systems were making up for lack of the sort of sightlines you had historically. One of the reasons I ended up going with a pretty old-school SUV design even though I didn't have much of an interest in most of the off-road features. Would probably buy the same vehicle today even though it hasn't been updated a lot.

Yes, and of course there are exceptions. I bought a new Toyota 20 years ago that probably had worse rearward visibility than some of the Teslas that are being recalled.

Re: Tesla recalls nearly half a million Model 3 and Model S cars

#90

Post by wk_end » Thu, Dec 30, 2021, 11:14 PM UTC

slg wrote: post #49

noah_buddy wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree that those headlines are even nearly so newsworthy! This Tesla recall is only 20k less than all that they sold in 2020. Ford recalling 200k cars is only 5% of what they sold in that same year. This is a relatively large proportion of all Tesla's on the road.

You can check this link[1] which I posted in another reply. There is a story there about Honda recalling 1.4m vehicles. That is right around a full year of sales in the US and exceeds annual sales for the last couple years[2]. That story got one upvote and zero comments when it was posted here last year. Once again, I am not trying to excuse Tesla for quality issues or say they make as good or a better quality car th…

Not that it matters a lot - but we've subtlety moved from total worldwide sales (Tesla) to US sales (Honda). 1.5M is a much smaller fraction of global sales for Honda (~a third).

It's true that the hype cycle around Tesla might unduly inflate the seeming significance of this. It's also true that this is unquestionably a very large, very significant recall.