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Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study

med.stanford.edu

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Re: Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study

#211

Post by leafmeal »

comboy wrote: post #185
pcurve wrote: post #57

“I don’t procrastinate anymore,” he added. “I’m sleeping better. I completely quit alcohol. I’m walking my dog and playing the guitar again, for nothing more than the sheer joy of it.” Most importantly, he said, “I’m remaining positive and being respectful of others. These are big changes in my life.” Serious question: are these typical signs of depression? Now I'm wondering if I have depression.

I think symptoms of depression are reduced to too few dimensions (these being all disorders names coming from a science which cannot reproduce most of its results). Imagine Einstein. He can't figure it out and solve the constant problem. Somethings not right. He's not happy, not sleeping well. He's thinking hard. But then, he takes a pill. Suddenly, no more thinking during bike rides. "I'm just looking around and dop…

Anti-depressants aren't like a "happy pill". It's not like soma from a Brave New World.

Re: Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study

#212

Post by bencollier49 »

Jeff_Brown wrote: post #19
nine_k wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a treatment-resistant condition, 50% success rate can be worth the effort.

Hell, 5% is worth the effort if it's little enough effort or the condition is severe enough. 80% is incredible if it holds up.

Not if it utterly ruins the remaining 20%. Or results in Lewy-Body Dementia in old age, or, or.. That's my concern here.

Re: Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study

#213

Post by causi »

tgv wrote: post #141
causi wrote: post #123

Cost (and availability/wait time for nations with public healthcare) are a concern. I know several people who received conventional TMS for 30 minutes a day for six weeks. That cost them, with insurance, about $1500. It was effective for an average of six months. This treatment is an order of magnitude more time spent in the machine, even if over a shorter period. What will it cost? Will it be accessible to those who…

$1500 is cheap. I know people who’ve been receiving therapy 1 hr/wk plus medication for years. Even here, where the medical costs are a lot lower than in the US, that’s probably €5000/yr, and that excludes the indirect costs of depression.

70% of Americans have less than $1,000 in savings.

Re: Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study

#214

Post by comboy »

leafmeal wrote: post #211
comboy wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think symptoms of depression are reduced to too few dimensions (these being all disorders names coming from a science which cannot reproduce most of its results). Imagine Einstein. He can't figure it out and solve the constant problem. Somethings not right. He's not happy, not sleeping well. He's thinking hard. But then, he takes a pill. Suddenly, no more thinking during bike rides. "I'm just looking around and dop…

Anti-depressants aren't like a "happy pill". It's not like soma from a Brave New World.

OK, in too much simplified version: you not being content with the state of things may not necessarily be your fault - it may be the things fault.

Of course you can change yourself, all problems are within you, they are created by your optimization function. Apocalypse is not a problem unless you don't want it to happen. Without people who don't make themself content with the state of things right now it's not a nice place to be. But without people who are not content and are trying to fix it it's not getting better.

Just to be too verbose because of sensitive topic: it may be you, it may be chemical imbalance, I'm not saying it's a happy pill and long story short if you haven't experienced happiness in a long time go see a doctor yada yada.

You can be happy during apocalypse when you are making progress towards ending it, you can not like things and accept it. I'm just making a case for unhappiness being the sane reaction in specific contexts.

It's really hard to have a meaningful discussion about this topic without being seen as a murderer while providing a decent information density. Even on HN.

Re: Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study

#215

Post by boffinAudio »

agumonkey wrote: post #183
FailMore wrote: post #176

While depression can certainly be caused by chemical imbalance and not because of how your unconscious mind impacts/limits your experience of life, I took the approach that exploring my subconscious through therapy was the way to get out. For me it worked very well and I think the journey is an amazing one to go on. Building from the ground up and understanding all the foundations within. I always wonder about treatm…

There are a few psychological constructs in our head that really tie deep into the mental pain I forgot who i saw recently that said we have a strong mirroring need in our brain, which means our happiness is extremely relative, if you suffer while people don't .. it hurts more; if people are in the same boat the pain gets softer. Oh and yeah unconscious fears are often the root of so many mental issues.. abandoning (…

> There are a few psychological constructs in our head that really tie deep into the mental pain

Indeed, one of those is the 'chemical imbalance' theory of depression, which in itself can lead to a person believing there is no hope because they just are a bag of chemicals.

The way out of this particular conundrum is as the OP stated - therapy which addresses the cause of the imbalance, which has every indication of being an effect of the depression, rather than the direct cause. Change your mind through therapy and non-physical means, then watch the bag of chemicals transform...

Re: Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study

#217

Post by the-dude »

andai wrote: post #111
ajaxexact wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you feel persistently low, tired, unhappy, or unable to do things then it's a real possibility. The PHQ-9 is a pretty standard depression screening questionnaire that you can complete in a minute or two. https://www.mdcalc.com/phq-9-patient-health-questionnaire-9

This doesn't control for the fact that the world sucks now, does it? I read a few months ago that ~25% of young adults had thoughts of suicide in the past year, so I think it's safe to say that the causes are more external than internal at this point.

What is the baseline?

Re: Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study

#218

Post by agumonkey »

FailMore wrote: post #199
agumonkey wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a few psychological constructs in our head that really tie deep into the mental pain I forgot who i saw recently that said we have a strong mirroring need in our brain, which means our happiness is extremely relative, if you suffer while people don't .. it hurts more; if people are in the same boat the pain gets softer. Oh and yeah unconscious fears are often the root of so many mental issues.. abandoning (…

I'm not sure what you mean when you say abandon (to) fears. But my experience was that when I could pinpoint the fear, overcoming it by facing it was the way out. Often as infants we develop legitimate fears in the context of our vulnerable position and extreme dependency on maintaining the parental relationship. These fears made sense then and helped us keep our parents calm, but interrupt our adult lives. These fea…

It was a poetic wording that popped into my mind a times. The image of abandoning all defensive reflexes and walking into whatever context you were afraid of and see how it feels.

There's a tendency to avoid seeking reality and stay in fearful predictions based on limited data that we gathered.

All this is probably close (if not same as) CBT. And Yoda :)

That said I often fail to do so. But I used to never try at all.

Re: Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study

#219

Post by agumonkey »

boffinAudio wrote: post #215
agumonkey wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a few psychological constructs in our head that really tie deep into the mental pain I forgot who i saw recently that said we have a strong mirroring need in our brain, which means our happiness is extremely relative, if you suffer while people don't .. it hurts more; if people are in the same boat the pain gets softer. Oh and yeah unconscious fears are often the root of so many mental issues.. abandoning (…

> There are a few psychological constructs in our head that really tie deep into the mental pain Indeed, one of those is the 'chemical imbalance' theory of depression, which in itself can lead to a person believing there is no hope because they just are a bag of chemicals. The way out of this particular conundrum is as the OP stated - therapy which addresses the cause of the imbalance, which has every indication of b…

It may not be as simple, i had pills that did influence chemistry (first take was a surprising experience.. feeling your nervous system shift toward mellow was strange). But mental construct of loss were still causing pain as high as before.

Re: Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study

#220

Post by carabiner »

InfiniteRand wrote: post #197
Groxx wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, this is a fairly standard size for an early trial. Trials cost money. Even if this is a lucky outlier and it turns out to be no better than the placebo in a larger trial, having a decently strong positive result can hugely improve your chances of getting the money (and interest) needed to run a larger trial.

But it’s worth realizing this small of a trial size likely means there’s a long road to widespread use

The same could be said for a massive trial with a small effect.
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