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Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study

med.stanford.edu

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Re: Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study

#11

Post by argsv »

ggm wrote: post #4
webinvest wrote: post #2

> “The treatment, known as Stanford accelerated intelligent neuromodulation therapy (SAINT) or simply Stanford neuromodulation therapy, is an intensive, individualized form of transcranial magnetic stimulation. In the study, remission typically occurred within days and lasted months. The only side effects were temporary fatigue and headaches.” > “Twenty-nine people with treatment-resistant depression participated in…

Within four weeks after treatment, 12 of the 14 participants who had received the treatment improved, and 11 of them met FDA criteria for remission. In contrast, only two of the 15 participants who had received the placebo met the criteria for remission From the article further on.

The two mentioned in the article met the FDA definition of remission. It doesn’t say, how many improved in general. This is important specifically since the sample size of the trial is small.

Re: Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study

#12

Post by mlyle »

kolinko wrote: post #5
webinvest wrote: post #2

> “The treatment, known as Stanford accelerated intelligent neuromodulation therapy (SAINT) or simply Stanford neuromodulation therapy, is an intensive, individualized form of transcranial magnetic stimulation. In the study, remission typically occurred within days and lasted months. The only side effects were temporary fatigue and headaches.” > “Twenty-nine people with treatment-resistant depression participated in…

The article says 2 out 15 improved in the control group.

Likely more than 2 of 15 improved. The numbers to compare are 2 of 15 remission vs. 11 of 14 remission-- not > of 15 improved vs. 12 of 14 improved.

Re: Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study

#13

Post by mlyle »

argsv wrote: post #11
ggm wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Within four weeks after treatment, 12 of the 14 participants who had received the treatment improved, and 11 of them met FDA criteria for remission. In contrast, only two of the 15 participants who had received the placebo met the criteria for remission From the article further on.

The two mentioned in the article met the FDA definition of remission. It doesn’t say, how many improved in general. This is important specifically since the sample size of the trial is small.

I agree both endpoints are interesting-- but arguably remission is more important of an outcome measure than improvement.

Re: Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study

#15

Post by Lammy »

webinvest wrote: post #2

> “The treatment, known as Stanford accelerated intelligent neuromodulation therapy (SAINT) or simply Stanford neuromodulation therapy, is an intensive, individualized form of transcranial magnetic stimulation. In the study, remission typically occurred within days and lasted months. The only side effects were temporary fatigue and headaches.” > “Twenty-nine people with treatment-resistant depression participated in…

Does this also imply the possibility of the inverse, magnetically making people depressed?

Re: Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study

#16

Post by tomrod »

cowpig wrote: post #6

There are surely enough trials on depression per year that a result with 15 participants in the treatment group is to small to start bringing this to public attention? With a sample size this small I don't think it should be in the news at all

Correct. It's one footnote in the long road to proof positive or negative, and will ideally provide information for meta-analysis.

Re: Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study

#17

Post by beaconstudios »

weird how people can often become depressed due to actual real-world experiences like grief or loneliness, but slap a magnet on em and they can go into remission.

Makes you wonder whether they'll go into remission for a while and then slip back into depression if the environmental factors are still there. I guess if it can knock you out of a depression where the trigger is no longer present but the trauma persists, that's incredibly valuable, even if the mechanism seems very strange.

Re: Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study

#18

Post by TulliusCicero »

cowpig wrote: post #6

There are surely enough trials on depression per year that a result with 15 participants in the treatment group is to small to start bringing this to public attention? With a sample size this small I don't think it should be in the news at all

It’s already a well established treatment, this is just the accelerated form, confirming it still works.

Re: Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study

#19

Post by Jeff_Brown »

nine_k wrote: post #7
webinvest wrote: post #2

> “The treatment, known as Stanford accelerated intelligent neuromodulation therapy (SAINT) or simply Stanford neuromodulation therapy, is an intensive, individualized form of transcranial magnetic stimulation. In the study, remission typically occurred within days and lasted months. The only side effects were temporary fatigue and headaches.” > “Twenty-nine people with treatment-resistant depression participated in…

For a treatment-resistant condition, 50% success rate can be worth the effort.

Hell, 5% is worth the effort if it's little enough effort or the condition is severe enough. 80% is incredible if it holds up.

Re: Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study

#20

Post by jrumbut »

Lammy wrote: post #15
webinvest wrote: post #2

> “The treatment, known as Stanford accelerated intelligent neuromodulation therapy (SAINT) or simply Stanford neuromodulation therapy, is an intensive, individualized form of transcranial magnetic stimulation. In the study, remission typically occurred within days and lasted months. The only side effects were temporary fatigue and headaches.” > “Twenty-nine people with treatment-resistant depression participated in…

Does this also imply the possibility of the inverse, magnetically making people depressed?

This is a great comment. I've always been a little uncomfortable with the thought of this magnetic treatment in a way I couldn't put into words and this nails it.

I'm willing to trust, perhaps naively, that everyone is getting the same Prozac tablets. But how does the skill of the practitioner and maintenance of their magnetic treatment device affect outcomes? It's almost like a surgery, but I'm not sure who's actually been trained to perform it.

Which isn't to say someone shouldn't do it, just my own feelings based on limited understanding. Perhaps if I knew more I would have greater faith.

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