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Ubisoft deleted account with hundreds of dollars’ worth of games for inactivity

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Re: Ubisoft deleted account with hundreds of dollars’ worth of games for inactivity

#171

Post by endisneigh »

westoque wrote: post #159
endisneigh wrote: post #15

This article is a great example of why we need legislation around ownership of digital items. I generally hate getting the government involved in things, but if you're paying money for goods, there needs to be a way to be credited or receive your digital goods in a way that still works without your "account". Personally I always get kind of nervous around buying things on PSN, Xbox, Stadia, Steam, Oculus, etc. If the…

This makes a good case for decentralization no? Imagine all those items in the blockchain, you can leave for years knowing you can retrieve them anytime. The only con at the point is if you lose your keys. Reminds me of some friends who had Bitcoin and “forgot” about it and only to come back with massive profits.

I don't understand how blockchain would solve this problem. How much would it cost in gas fees to download a 100GB game? That aside how would you handle licensing, revocation, etc?

Re: Ubisoft deleted account with hundreds of dollars’ worth of games for inactivity

#172

Post by caconym_ »

westoque wrote: post #159
endisneigh wrote: post #15

This article is a great example of why we need legislation around ownership of digital items. I generally hate getting the government involved in things, but if you're paying money for goods, there needs to be a way to be credited or receive your digital goods in a way that still works without your "account". Personally I always get kind of nervous around buying things on PSN, Xbox, Stadia, Steam, Oculus, etc. If the…

This makes a good case for decentralization no? Imagine all those items in the blockchain, you can leave for years knowing you can retrieve them anytime. The only con at the point is if you lose your keys. Reminds me of some friends who had Bitcoin and “forgot” about it and only to come back with massive profits.

Blockchain isn't a good replacement for functional legislative and/or regulatory bodies that actually give a shit about the people they're supposed to be protecting. In this case, corporations unwilling to grant actual ownership of "digital purchases" to the consumers who paid for them aren't going to change that policy just because it sounds like a cool application for blockchain. If they were willing to do something like that, they would already offer portable DRM-free installers and license keys to match. Indeed, some publishers do exactly that, but Ubisoft's management are the sort of bottom of the barrel scum who will only be dragged kicking and screaming into a world where consumers actually own what they've paid for.

Re: Ubisoft deleted account with hundreds of dollars’ worth of games for inactivity

#173

Post by ulrikrasmussen »

westoque wrote: post #159
endisneigh wrote: post #15

This article is a great example of why we need legislation around ownership of digital items. I generally hate getting the government involved in things, but if you're paying money for goods, there needs to be a way to be credited or receive your digital goods in a way that still works without your "account". Personally I always get kind of nervous around buying things on PSN, Xbox, Stadia, Steam, Oculus, etc. If the…

This makes a good case for decentralization no? Imagine all those items in the blockchain, you can leave for years knowing you can retrieve them anytime. The only con at the point is if you lose your keys. Reminds me of some friends who had Bitcoin and “forgot” about it and only to come back with massive profits.

How so? The technical answer to this problem is that it must always be possible to store games and media on media that you physically own, and load these on the gaming device in a completely offline process that does not depend on having an account.

I don't think blockchain has any application here. You already have a receipt of your purchase, and noone is disputing that, so blockchain would add nothing but an extra layer of complexity. The problem is that the rights that follow with that purchase does not match what consumers would naturally expect.

Re: Ubisoft deleted account with hundreds of dollars’ worth of games for inactivity

#174

Post by okwubodu »

endisneigh wrote: post #171
westoque wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This makes a good case for decentralization no? Imagine all those items in the blockchain, you can leave for years knowing you can retrieve them anytime. The only con at the point is if you lose your keys. Reminds me of some friends who had Bitcoin and “forgot” about it and only to come back with massive profits.

I don't understand how blockchain would solve this problem. How much would it cost in gas fees to download a 100GB game? That aside how would you handle licensing, revocation, etc?

Tokenized game licenses could presumably be transferred to a different wallet without depending on whatever game company to do the right thing.

Re: Ubisoft deleted account with hundreds of dollars’ worth of games for inactivity

#175

Post by apatters »

pdonis wrote: post #84
alasdair_ wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The terms are not a negotiated contract - they are dictated by one side and even if they are read by the purchaser, the implications of the terms may not be obvious. Many/most people will not understand that after paying hundreds of dollars for games, their games could suddenly be taken away from them without recourse. For a ridiculous example, imagine there was a clause buried in the fineprint that allowed the store…

> The terms are not a negotiated contract That doesn't mean they aren't a contract. They're simply a contract where your only options as the buyer are to buy or not to buy. That said, a unilateral contract like this can be treated somewhat differently by courts. See below. > removing the right to play a game you have bought with money because you haven’t played it “enough” (according to the vendor) may also be consid…

For anyone who wants to go down the rabbit hole and learn more about this topic, try Googling "eula unconscionability"

There is a concept in contract law where if an agreement is heavily biased in favor of one party and that party has almost all of the leverage in the relationship, flat out refuses negotiation etc. - then a court can find that contract unconscionable and invalidate it.

That sounds like it might apply to a lot of "take it or leave it" software/online ToS and EULAs, but there's very little case law in this area to my knowledge.

Plus if your contract with Steam is invalidated, where does that leave you? It means Steam has no further obligation to you so you still can't access your games.

IANAL

Re: Ubisoft deleted account with hundreds of dollars’ worth of games for inactivity

#176

Post by forgotmyoldname »

westoque wrote: post #159
endisneigh wrote: post #15

This article is a great example of why we need legislation around ownership of digital items. I generally hate getting the government involved in things, but if you're paying money for goods, there needs to be a way to be credited or receive your digital goods in a way that still works without your "account". Personally I always get kind of nervous around buying things on PSN, Xbox, Stadia, Steam, Oculus, etc. If the…

This makes a good case for decentralization no? Imagine all those items in the blockchain, you can leave for years knowing you can retrieve them anytime. The only con at the point is if you lose your keys. Reminds me of some friends who had Bitcoin and “forgot” about it and only to come back with massive profits.

At the same time, there are people who lost their wallet and RIP to all that potential wealth. And then there are people who had their computer stolen/broken and then just downloaded Steam on a new device and had their games and saves ready to go.

Not that I'm defending centralized services like Steam, because I'm very well aware that companies have happily wielded their power to randomly lock people out of their accounts (like the main subject here). But crypto isn't solving anything either (or at least not yet).

Re: Ubisoft deleted account with hundreds of dollars’ worth of games for inactivity

#177

Post by endisneigh »

okwubodu wrote: post #174
endisneigh wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand how blockchain would solve this problem. How much would it cost in gas fees to download a 100GB game? That aside how would you handle licensing, revocation, etc?

Tokenized game licenses could presumably be transferred to a different wallet without depending on whatever game company to do the right thing.

OK, but where do you download the game? Even with licensing, you couldn't play offline? If so, what's stopping someone from just keeping the state of the blockchain such that the offline client thinks you own the games but you actually don't.

Doesn't seem like it'd work to me without a central authority.

Re: Ubisoft deleted account with hundreds of dollars’ worth of games for inactivity

#178

Post by hanniabu »

paxys wrote: post #28

I paid extra for a disc version of the PS5 for exactly this reason. If I buy a game today I want to be able to play it 20 years from now. I can bet money that none of the mainstream digital stores of today will be operational by then.

Too bad you can't play most games offline anymore and I'd you're online they'll probably stop you from playing when your account isn't valid.

Re: Ubisoft deleted account with hundreds of dollars’ worth of games for inactivity

#179

Post by josephcsible »

EMIRELADERO wrote: post #169
ipaddr wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Terms are not a contract or a type of contract. Were you instructed to consult your legal team before signing the contract? What you never signed with a witness and a notary? So if they put in a term that said you agree to give them your house or 500 you would have to? Terms of service are the rules outlined by the service provider. Breaking these could get your service cut and you would have a hard time finding a le…

I agree with your whole opinion on T&C's and abuse by companies, but they are still a contract, mostly because there is no "hard standard" in how a contract can be formed between two parties. Even a verbal agreement can be seen as a "contract" as much as a signed paper.

If I put a piece of tape across the door to your house, and I write "by breaking or removing this tape, you owe me $1000", is that a valid contract? One party shouldn't be able to just make up things that constitute agreement to a contract.

Re: Ubisoft deleted account with hundreds of dollars’ worth of games for inactivity

#180

Post by conradludgate »

pdonis wrote: post #48
chii wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

to participate in the cultural works of today's digital world.

These are games we're talking about. They're recreation. For people to be demanding legislation because a recreational activity isn't set up just the way they like it, when they knew the terms perfectly well before they paid their money, is not "participating in cultural works".

Why should recreational works not be protected? Isn't enjoying artwork purely recreational, except we put a greater deal of care into preserving and displaying the historical works.

A lot of games fall into the same categories of digital interactive art. Especially if its mostly a single player game, I may want to re-experience that game later, much like I might watch a DVD or VHS I still own from my childhood.

Of course I wouldn't expect their servers to still be running, which is why getting rid of DRM is important for the sake of archival

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