Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement • Hacker News Board

Re: Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

#381

Post by notpachet » Thu, Dec 23, 2021, 10:28 PM UTC

alex77456 wrote: post #357

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I'm angry at Intel for not having actual convictions. It looks like they're doing the ban, not because they actually believe that there's slave labor in Xinjiang, but because their stockholders will be mad if they don't. And they issued the apology, not because they realized that there is no slave labor in Xinjiang, but because they don't want China angry at them. They're trying to just get on with being…

There is no reason to expect human-like behaviour and traits from organisations.

And yet we deem it appropriate to grant them personhood in the eyes of the law.

Re: Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

#382

Post by Ostrogodsky » Thu, Dec 23, 2021, 10:38 PM UTC

ScouterRich wrote: post #376

pokepim wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/figures/2021/WarDeathTol... It’s pure atrocity… Also about the US minority ( I wasn’t writing about that in my earlier comment but since you brought that up) https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-01846-z So stop denying that systemic racism, racial profiling of minorities and targeted police brutality is not happening in the US. Did you vote for Trump? Because that would expla…

Nobody is saying that other countries haven't done horrible things. That's a separate issue, unless your argument is that it is okay for the CCP (not the Chinese people, this is political, not racial) to commit crimes against humanity. The response to the possible horrors in Xinjiang, and Tibet, should not be countered with whataboutisms. Don't we all want everyone to have a quality life free of suffering and abuse b…

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Re: Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

#383

Post by norealathrowwy » Thu, Dec 23, 2021, 10:48 PM UTC

737min wrote: post #185

“ We apologise for the trouble caused to our respected Chinese customers..” Andy Grove, a Holocaust survivor, must be turning over in his grave.

No post body was provided.

Re: Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

#384

Post by dirtyid » Thu, Dec 23, 2021, 10:50 PM UTC

hker wrote: post #360

hungryhobo wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

is bitterwinter.org a reliable source? or perhaps we should dig deeper, is adrian zenz, whom most of the xinjiang genocide claims originated from, a reliable source? https://thegrayzone.com/2021/02/18/us-media-reports-chinese-...

> is bitterwinter.org a reliable source? The bitterwinter.org article, which is clearly labeled as Op-Ed: 1. reports that BCI Shanghai contradicts BCI headquarter (which you can independently verify, as there are other news sources supporting this, such as the SCMP article I just added). 2. argues that the local branch (BCI Shanghai) could be under pressure for operating in China (the quoted text above). If you don’t…

Literally the first reference/citation of "Broad Daylight" is attributed to Zenz. The Washington post does no additional verification but attribute to "researchers" who will no doubt also quote Zenz. It's also Washington Post. There are no verifiable sources alleging coerced labour that doesn't trace back to Zenz. Bitterwinter or HKFP are also far from reliable, on par with Epochetimes bias.

>Hugo Boss Chinese branch contradicted the Hugo Boss global headquarter without authorization, and make your judgement call for why.

Global HQs making judgement calls due to coordinated pressure campaign from their primary markets, against the due diligence of their local branch who has on the ground experience. Make your judgement call for why.

Re: Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

#385

Post by ScouterRich » Thu, Dec 23, 2021, 10:51 PM UTC

Ostrogodsky wrote: post #382

ScouterRich wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody is saying that other countries haven't done horrible things. That's a separate issue, unless your argument is that it is okay for the CCP (not the Chinese people, this is political, not racial) to commit crimes against humanity. The response to the possible horrors in Xinjiang, and Tibet, should not be countered with whataboutisms. Don't we all want everyone to have a quality life free of suffering and abuse b…

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Re: Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

#386

Post by BobbyJo » Thu, Dec 23, 2021, 10:55 PM UTC

ribosometronome wrote: post #330

dang wrote: post #318

All: if you want to comment on HN on a divisive topic like this, please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and make sure you're commenting in the intended spirit: curious, thoughtful, respectful conversation across differences . Note, for example, this guideline—we really mean it: " Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive. " Many users can't se…

There is a diff between not being a troll and being respectful of alleged human rights abuses. Suggesting that we must be respectful in the light of massive human rights violations is how those human rights violations get to take place. This is the same sort of peak Silicon Valley technocrat mindset that led to things like apologizing for not sourcing parts from forced labor in China and sites like reddit holding on…

The maximum effect a comment on here can have is making a statement that changes someone's mind. Overly emotional, shallow, or terse responses aren't going to have that effect.

I get your point, but disregard for decorum here isn't going to solve any of those problems. At best it's shouting into a void, at worst your fooling yourself into thinking you're part of the solution while fixing nothing.

Re: Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

#387

Post by dnautics » Thu, Dec 23, 2021, 11:01 PM UTC

formerly_proven wrote: post #308

dnautics wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

isn't this exactly the opposite? IIRC there was a situation where a large-ish? AMD subdivision in china was nationalized and made off with a considerable amount of AMD IP

You're probably thinking about ARM, whose Chinese branch unilaterally declared independency from the crown some time ago.

Ah yes, my bad!! Sorry

Re: Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

#388

Post by josephcsible » Thu, Dec 23, 2021, 11:03 PM UTC

bogwog wrote: post #148

joshuajill wrote: post #76

Interestingly, small companies like FairPhone work to improve their suppliers' labor conditions. Intel of all the companies is in a position to do the same or more. However they choose to whitewash their brand by blaming the chinese government of their lack of care. Their hypocrisy backfired, and they let China win on all counts. Ironically they ended up helping whitewash the chinese government.

How could Intel help improve the forced labor situation in Xinjiang? That’s an extremely sensitive political issue which money won’t solve.

By refusing to do any sort of business in or conduct any sort of trade with China.

Re: Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

#389

Post by ncmncm » Thu, Dec 23, 2021, 11:03 PM UTC

Dylan16807 wrote: post #364

ncmncm wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many motivations for evil action. They don't contradict, they add. Having more does not make it less evil.

Yep. Also this has nothing to do with the point I was trying to make, which wasn't about the US specifically. To restate it, just to be very clear: 1. find someone that was legitimately sentenced to a fair duration of prison 2. offering them the ability to labor to reduce their sentence is not forced labor

Or, as we actually do, just assume they were legitimately sentenced to what we just assume is a fair duration.

Letting somebody innocent out "early", even if we extracted undue labor from them, could be a net good. But the incentives are all in the wrong direction, and we see the effects writ large all around us. Making fine points about a theoretical situation of justice and legitimacy is a harmful distraction in present circumstances, where we demonstrably don't have those.

Re: Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

#390

Post by BobbyJo » Thu, Dec 23, 2021, 11:05 PM UTC

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #264

FooBarWidget wrote: post #18

It's interesting to see that people on both sides are angry -- for different reasons. People on western Internet are angry at Intel for having issued an apology. People on Chinese Internet are angry because they view it as a non-apology, i.e. Intel still goes ahead with the ban. I see people -- including Chinese diaspora -- calling for banning Intel.

Personally, I'm angry at Intel for not having actual convictions. It looks like they're doing the ban, not because they actually believe that there's slave labor in Xinjiang, but because their stockholders will be mad if they don't. And they issued the apology, not because they realized that there is no slave labor in Xinjiang, but because they don't want China angry at them. They're trying to just get on with being…

As long as corporations are legal persons, I'm going to hold them to a moral standard, and I think the American public as a whole has a duty to do the same. If they can contribute to politicians, then we all have a personal stake in their ethics.