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Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

reuters.com

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Re: Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

#281

Post by yumraj »

logicchains wrote: post #53
einpoklum wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Umm, with respect - it is the US anti-Chinese rhetoric that is changing, rather than Chinese government policy. There are many repressive aspects to the Chinese regime (and government specifically I suppose); but this is probably less the case today then, say, 30 years ago. Certainly I doubt very much repression has been tightened over the past few years. If I'm mistaken - please provide references, preferably to non…

>If I'm mistaken - please provide references, preferably to non-US-aligned media sources. Here's an official Chinese government source defending the use of labour/"re-education" camps in Xinjiang: http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/201903/19/WS5c9033f0a3106c65c... . In past the Chinese government didn't send large numbers of people to camps based on their ethnicity.

> In past the Chinese government didn't send large numbers of people to camps based on their ethnicity.

No they just occupied whole of Tibet and converted the whole area into a re-education camp while working to wipe out local culture.

Re: Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

#282

Post by dang »

jedimind wrote: post #72
FooBarWidget wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's that simple. For example BCI performed multiple audits since 2012 and hasn't found a single case of forced labor.[1][2] Despite that, they've pulled back from Xinjiang. Companies don't want to deal with Xinjiang just so they can avoid controversies, regardless of actual facts. Also, the Xinjiang Forced Labor Prevention Act is based on the maxim of guilty-until-proven-innocent. There is no way to co…

Quoted post unavailable.

If you break the HN guidelines this badly again we will ban you. They explicitly ask you not to post like this, for deep, clear, and long-established reasons (which can be summed up like this: well over 99.9% of internet complaints about astroturfing and shillage are demonstrably unfounded, and also full of poison that we don't want here).

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

If you want further explanation, there's many years' worth at https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme... and you'll find other links there that go deeply into the matter.

Re: Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

#283

Post by xxpor »

TakuYam wrote: post #270
ncmncm wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Made in USA" is often code for "made with prison labor". Louisiana is said to make a point of incarcerating particularly black citizens on made-up charges and excessive sentencing to maintain a ready prison labor pool. So, it is probably important to verify that such products are not from prison labor. China has is rightly criticized for unjustified incarceration, particularly in Xinjiang, but the US incarcerates ma…

That’s an incredibly serious claim to make, do you have evidence to support your claims?

It's not particularly controversial. Here's the NY version, for example. https://corcraft.ny.gov/

There's an explicit carve out in the 13th amendment's slavery prohibition for people convicted of crimes.

Re: Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

#284

Post by [deleted] »

exo762 wrote: post #201
FooBarWidget wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. Here, check this: https://apparelinsider.com/bci-shanghai-claims-audit-finding... Just because people and outlets have a different opinion than you doesn't necessarily mean they're wrong, or "propagandists". Some people just have a different opinion, out of their own free will and independent thought, all right?

Quoted post unavailable.

[deleted]

Re: Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

#285

Post by nix23 »

zivkovicp wrote: post #237
pc86 wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Social credit is offensive and freedom-limiting by definition . You can't make any small-d-democratic argument in favor of a massive central social credit system because the two are antithetical. A vaccine passport system could turn into something similar, but that's not necessarily a given. It's the slippery slope fallacy taken to the extreme - "because it's possible to imagine a situation in which a vaccine passpor…

> Social credit is offensive and freedom-limiting by definition. Yes, I agree. I was defending this exact point. The commenter I replied to originally seemed upset about the original comment condemning vax passports. I guess I didn't word my response clearly enough.

To put a proof of vaccination on the same level as a social credit system is just beyond, if you don't have a passport you cannot travel into other country's, if your dog is not vaccinated against rabbis, he cannot travel to let's say Georgia.

I am upset because a Quanon goat thinks a vaxpass is the same as a social credit system, and was just made for that "ultimately"

Re: Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

#286

Post by dang »

tombh wrote: post #184
philliphaydon wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is involved in no less than 18 different border disputes. Is encroaching on India territory. Bribed Solomon Island government to switch. Refuses to abide by the law of the seas. Is debt trapping nations in Africa and claiming they aren’t because they don’t directly take control of the projects and instead have Chinese businesses buy large portions of ports and natural resources. Abusing trade agreements. Threat…

You are so out of your league here. Whilst you state facts, it is comical to imply that China can hold a candle to the West's atrocities. 18 different border disputes, 18!?? I mean how can you seriously think that's a big number? Just take the American continent itself. Honestly, think about it for a second, what if North America was inhabited by Mandarin-speakers from northern China and South America was inhabited b…

You've broken the site guidelines egregiously here.

Please don't take HN threads further into flamewar, regardless of how wrong someone is or you feel they are. Not only does it take the community further into hell—just what we don't want, and good for nobody—but you actually discredit your own point of view when you post like this. If you happen to be advocating for the truth, or some aspect of it, that means discrediting the truth as well. This hurts everybody.

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor...

I know how difficult and frustrating it is to be advocating a minority/contrarian view whilst feeling surrounded by endless wrongness on the internet, but at least on HN, if you're going to wade into such swamps, you need to build capacity to do so thoughtfully, neutrally, without swipes, and so on. That's not easy, but we all need to work on it.

Railing and fulminating against wrongness (e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29661759) actually feeds the wrongness you're seeking to counter. You're gifting it with new feelings of validation and righteousness when you do that. This is not in your interest, and it's damaging to the community (such as it is) here.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

#287

Post by nix23 »

zivkovicp wrote: post #111
nix23 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

How so? Even if the intent of such programs might be positive, is there not a risk of them being used to limit, coerce, or change user behaviour? (it wouldn't be the first time) Why is this such an offensive statement?

> Even if the intent of such programs might be positive, is there not a risk of them being used to limit, coerce, or change user behaviour?

Oh yes same with passports.....

Re: Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

#288

Post by dang »

ekianjo wrote: post #182
tombh wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Surely the soviets killing dozens of millions of russians and invading half of Europe is all the fault of the evil West. Sounds like you went around the world with a narrative preset in your mind.

Flamewar comments like this are not ok on HN. Please don't take threads further into generic flamey hell—it's repetitive, predictable, and tedious. And definitely please don't cross into personal attack, regardless of how wrong someone else is or you feel they are. That's seriously not cool.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

#289

Post by dang »

ryandrake wrote: post #155
tombh wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[flagged]

Please don't invoke canned arguments like "whataboutism" as flamewar ammunition on HN. It's a classic type of generic ideological tangent that the site guidelines ask to avoid. It's also bad logic, despite how often and how eagerly people repeat it.

https://hn.algolia.com/?query=whataboutism%20by:dang&dateRan...

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

#290

Post by dang »

philliphaydon wrote: post #174
drekk wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

China is involved in no less than 18 different border disputes. Is encroaching on India territory. Bribed Solomon Island government to switch. Refuses to abide by the law of the seas. Is debt trapping nations in Africa and claiming they aren’t because they don’t directly take control of the projects and instead have Chinese businesses buy large portions of ports and natural resources. Abusing trade agreements. Threat…

Please don't use HN for generic nationalistic flamewar. It's exactly what this site is not for.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Edit: you've unfortunately been doing this a ton - in fact you may even be using HN primarily for nationalistic battle at this point. That's seriously not ok (regardless of which country you have a problem with) and we ban accounts that do it. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and fix this, I'd appreciate it.

Edit: this has been a problem for a long time:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29407968

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22893867

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22880789

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22827321

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22827309

As I seem to have already told you more than once, I don't want to ban you because you've been here for a long time and also made good contributions. But if you persist in not using the site as intended, we're going to end up having you. So would you please fix this?

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