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Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

reuters.com

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Re: Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

#241

Post by zelon88 »

pjmlp wrote: post #153
mrweasel wrote: post #139

I really don't understand China, but China also don't care to understand the west one bit. China has zero cultural understand about anything beyond its borders and basically only survives on other cultures being either extremely flexible or completely dependent on China for manufacturing (or both). We're basically just waiting for companies to pull manufacturing from China, because they can deal with the backlash at…

We can start by not buying anything Made In China as much as possible, however I fail to ever see that happening, as most are quick to forget their morals when it hits their wallets.

That's not going to do anything.

In modern day, American companies have more to gain in China than they have to lose in the USA. The market they are chasing is 3 times larger than the US and the only "regulation" in sight is basically bribing local government.

Don't be surprised if the companies you boycott simply move operations to China and cut ties with the US.

China devalues its domestic currency on purpose so that oligarchs use the stronger American dollar as a vehicle. Once the companies move to China they can strengthen their domestic currency, shed the dollar, and then Americans will be making Ipads in factories with suicide nets and China will be sipping Starbucks wearing inexpensive "Made in USA" Apple watches

Re: Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

#242

Post by splitstud »

Shadonototra wrote: post #235
mrweasel wrote: post #139

I really don't understand China, but China also don't care to understand the west one bit. China has zero cultural understand about anything beyond its borders and basically only survives on other cultures being either extremely flexible or completely dependent on China for manufacturing (or both). We're basically just waiting for companies to pull manufacturing from China, because they can deal with the backlash at…

> and basically only survives on other cultures being either extremely flexible or completely dependent on China for manufacturing (or both). yeah, china only exist since 1940, it's a known fact ;) > We're basically just waiting for companies to pull manufacturing from China, because they can deal with the backlash at home for ever, or some western leader to snap and just tell China to "Go kill whoever you need to ge…

Supply chains are already moving from China as fast as possible. Access to western markets will disappear. No amount of rhetoric will change this.

Re: Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

#243

Post by zivkovicp »

pc86 wrote: post #219
throwaway2037 wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Zero trolling here. I am modestly in favour of a COVID-19 vaccine "passport". And yes, I have considered the oppression side of the argument. Why am I modestly in favour? Look at how yellow fever vaccination status is handled. In areas of the world where it is still endemic, travelers are denied entry without a recent vaccination and an official UN/WHO card to prove it. (Please leave aside for a moment the idea that…

I've never traveled anywhere yellow fever is endemic so I don't know a ton about it other than the vaccination requirements you mention. I carry my vaccination card in my wallet so I'm not immediately opposed to some sort of verifiable way to confirm one's vaccination status. There are absolutely some instances where it makes sense to mandate it, but it's wrong to try to structure society so that you can't take part…

This sounds about right.

I'm not informed enough to comment on the virus or quality/efficacy/safety of any of the vaccines, but I am vaccinated, and have friends and family in both camps. All I know is that this is not a naive virus, I know about a dozen people who have had it, not everyone has survived, but everyone who has was genuinely afraid for their lives. That anecdotal evidence is enough to convince me to accept a vaccine/medication because I feel the risk/reward is favourable.

I can't bring myself to support mandated vaccination or making pariahs out of those who don't share my risk/reward considerations, however, because I think clawing back individual liberties that we give up is much harder than finding the compromises necessary to hold onto them in the first place.

I might be wrong, it wouldn't be the first time, but I would prefer compromise and tolerance to a knee-jerk reaction. There is already too much bad legislation born from "times of emergency" and such, no need to stoke the flames.

Re: Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

#244

Post by wolverine876 »

mpol wrote: post #157
mrweasel wrote: post #139

I really don't understand China, but China also don't care to understand the west one bit. China has zero cultural understand about anything beyond its borders and basically only survives on other cultures being either extremely flexible or completely dependent on China for manufacturing (or both). We're basically just waiting for companies to pull manufacturing from China, because they can deal with the backlash at…

If you allow me to throw in an idea, and please correct me if you see fit. In earlier times the Confucian pacifist ways of China were not up to the aggression of Western Europe, the US and Japan. In more recent times they learned to deal better with these foreign powers. The last thing they want is to give up their autonomy and culture and get run over by all these well meaning politicians that are very much after po…

> In earlier times the Confucian pacifist ways of China

Imperial China was not pacifist. A basic model of Chinese history, which IIRC came from scholars in imperial China, was that China repeated a three stage cycle (from memory, the terms won't be exactly right): ascension (of a new dyansty) and prosperity -> decline and corruption -> chaos (and war) -> ascenscion ....

China's borders reguarly changed through force. Look up historical maps, for example. However, China had no peers in size and wealth nearby, and therefore didn't fight existential wars.

I'm not sure Confucian philosophy is pacifist, regardless.

> China were not up to the aggression of Western Europe, the US and Japan

They were not up to the technological advantages of the industrial revolution, and took a long time to recognize it and to change. In the early-ish 19th century, the Qing emporer wrote a famous letter to the king of England saying that China did not need their trinkets (industrial revolution technology) that the subordinate king (I forget how that was implied or expressed) offered, apparently not realizing the severe disadvantage. Even after the subsequent brutal, imperialistic attack on China, seizure of ports, and forced trade, the Chinese emporers tried to minimize change, IIRC first trying to just buy military tech without the infrastructure of knowledge, training, skills, etc.

Even today, the CCP seems to think it will have a wealthy capitalist country without a free market (which itself requires freedom and free thinking).

Re: Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

#245

Post by trasz »

splitstud wrote: post #240
trasz wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Everything you just said is meaningless evasion. Glow more.

It's not evasion, it's a simple, easily verifiable fact that directly contradicts your claim.

Re: Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

#246

Post by joshuajill »

bogwog wrote: post #148
joshuajill wrote: post #76

Interestingly, small companies like FairPhone work to improve their suppliers' labor conditions. Intel of all the companies is in a position to do the same or more. However they choose to whitewash their brand by blaming the chinese government of their lack of care. Their hypocrisy backfired, and they let China win on all counts. Ironically they ended up helping whitewash the chinese government.

How could Intel help improve the forced labor situation in Xinjiang? That’s an extremely sensitive political issue which money won’t solve.

For once they could try. They can have rules for their suppliers and factories, and enforce those. Other companies do. Even a tiny company like FairPhone does. But no, they chose for decades the cheap labor, and now they turn around and say "no more" just to defend their reputation.

In any case, apparently their apologies to China will not stop them from moving away from Xinjiang working, even if just for show.

Re: Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

#247

Post by foepys »

zelon88 wrote: post #241
pjmlp wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can start by not buying anything Made In China as much as possible, however I fail to ever see that happening, as most are quick to forget their morals when it hits their wallets.

That's not going to do anything. In modern day, American companies have more to gain in China than they have to lose in the USA. The market they are chasing is 3 times larger than the US and the only "regulation" in sight is basically bribing local government. Don't be surprised if the companies you boycott simply move operations to China and cut ties with the US. China devalues its domestic currency on purpose so th…

This is completely ignoring the fact that China doesn't want foreign companies operating inside their borders unless they form a joint venture with a local Chinese owned company that owns >50%.

China is also an authoritarian regime that does not care about laws if a company doesn't play ball. They will just be shut down. This doesn't sound like a good market to put all your trust into.

Re: Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

#248

Post by TearsInTheRain »

zelon88 wrote: post #241
pjmlp wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can start by not buying anything Made In China as much as possible, however I fail to ever see that happening, as most are quick to forget their morals when it hits their wallets.

That's not going to do anything. In modern day, American companies have more to gain in China than they have to lose in the USA. The market they are chasing is 3 times larger than the US and the only "regulation" in sight is basically bribing local government. Don't be surprised if the companies you boycott simply move operations to China and cut ties with the US. China devalues its domestic currency on purpose so th…

3x larger in people is not 3x larger in wealth. I think US and China are comparable in that regard. And I dont know if the opportunity going forward is so incredible given China's debt levels and impending population bust.

Re: Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

#249

Post by sysOpOpPERAND »

smhenderson wrote: post #169
pjmlp wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can start by not buying anything Made In China as much as possible, however I fail to ever see that happening, as most are quick to forget their morals when it hits their wallets.

It's also become increasingly difficult, and in some cases nigh impossible, to avoid items from China. I'm older and don't need a lot beyond the food and shelter I work for, I have plenty of "stuff". But buying clothing, gifts, electronics, well, the list is long and I won't try to cover everything here, that doesn't have at least part of it's assembly provided by China is not easy to avoid. It's not just people's wa…

there is an app where you can scan beauty products and it will tell you what is in them, it gives you warnings about dangerous chemicals in certain products. it's called think dirty. there is another app for food that does the same thing called yuka.

i wonder if there is an app where it will tell you the origin of a product or a rating on the company based on ethics. like ethically sourced rating or something along those lines.

Re: Intel apologises in China over Xinjiang supplier statement

#250

Post by joshuajill »

mrtranscendence wrote: post #211
joshuajill wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, I avoid both to some extent. What worries me the most though is smart people taking sides based on mostly propaganda and feeding an escalation of a situation already on the brink of a war. I mean why choose between Chinese authoritarian regime and the US aggressive and destructive foreign policy?

But avoiding Chinese products doesn't necessarily mean taking a stand in a propaganda war. Is China using forced labor? If so, is that worth a response of some kind? These questions are orthogonal to whether the US is worth protesting for its own sins.

It is propagandist and borderline racist. There are factories in China with working conditions comparable or better then in the US. Remember the middle class is growing in China and diminishing in the US.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/the-state-of-amer... https://www.mckinsey.com/industries/retail/our-insights/mapp...

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