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Internet Archive as a default host-of-record for startups

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Re: Internet Archive as a default host-of-record for startups

#101
post #96

I'm old enough to remember when the host-of-record for failed startups was fuckedcompany.com ... I do wonder how many startups actually want to be archived, rather than just ditch everything with unseemly speed as soon as they get acquishutdown.

There's huge valuable learnings to be had in failure. Through some coordination they could perhaps get compensation for sharing although this goes against it all being open and free.

Re: Internet Archive as a default host-of-record for startups

#102
post #73
post #18

it sounds like he wants to be able to archive and respinup/run things like mmoprg game servers as easily as static content can be archived and served today. that would be a huge and expensive paradigm shift for internet service backends that traditionally have been only designed to be run by one entity and typically are a mix of custom, open source and proprietary software that is run in a specific way. i suppose it…

Well there's other static things like FAQs, news feeds, even hosted game content that a game might rely on. It's not just dynamic services. I think Carmack is referring to that.

..."something like this could combine with a blockchain style technology to make internet applications that could outlive companies. A niche multiuser game that couldn't meet company revenue goals could still be "fed" by anyone that wanted to push resources at it, since the "

that's not static assets, that's a multiuser game server.

i think he's envisioning entire internet service backends that can be packaged up like java applets and re-run on demand paired with some kind of decentralized serving infrastructure that any user can insert coins and resurrect a sophisticated web service from the past.

more likely i suspect we'll see more efforts by hobbyists to resurrect these things and more releases of backends from failed projects into the public domain.

with so much physical gear that requires service backends being made today, we may even see regulation that requires release of the source for a service when a service is shut down. crazy to think that if the company who made your car or tractor fails, that your perfectly good car or tractor could cease function when they shut down the service backend.

Re: Internet Archive as a default host-of-record for startups

#103
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similarly how github is a blockchain. I think he means the ease of version control by this.

Github is a software development tooling provider, not a blockchain

For his defense, he probably meant Git and typed too quickly. It's still obvious what he meant.

Re: Internet Archive as a default host-of-record for startups

#104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hard to know what will be of interest for future historians. Some things in which we place great value can be considered irrelevant, while some of our junk can become historical gold.

> some of our junk can become historical gold That's what interests me. For example, there's a cool repository of 12 step speaker meeting talks hosted in Iceland [1] and frankly, some of the talks are junk, but there's a lot of wisdom. What I find interesting is how it showcases how ordinary citizens talk to each other. The words they use, the accents, the little gems of folk wisdom contained, along with some uncommo…

That's a great example, thanks. Funny enough, I got that insight from Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure. In the end, the most important thing in the future was some 80s rock song.

Re: Internet Archive as a default host-of-record for startups

#105
post #75

I don't understand why Carmack thinks blockchain should be a component of this. Anyone care to elaborate on how that would make this easier/better?

I stopped reading when blockchain was mentioned.

I thought it was otherwise a reasonable idea, but yes-- it put me off a bit when he mentioned blockchain without further elaboration.

I see blockchain as a technology that may develop useful applications, but-- in terms of current day usage-- I'm extremely skeptical when it's referenced in conjunction with applications that might achieve the same goals without it.

Re: Internet Archive as a default host-of-record for startups

#106
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Github is a software development tooling provider, not a blockchain

For his defense, he probably meant Git and typed too quickly. It's still obvious what he meant.

Honestly, Git was not at all obvious to me from that. And I fully admit that it could be a failing on my part not to read that into his post, but nonetheless I didn't see it.

Re: Internet Archive as a default host-of-record for startups

#107
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I stopped reading when blockchain was mentioned.

Why?

because it shows a lack of understanding of the basics of distributed computing. specially on top of the web we have today (which was how the thread started "IA as a default host-of-records" which implies said records must be reachable by a any tech illiterate lawyer today)

car analogy time: It is the same as reading a post about "how to lift my car to do work in the garage", and the the second paragraph starts with "using energy harvested from my perpetual motion machine"

Re: Internet Archive as a default host-of-record for startups

#109
post #3

Personally, I think eternally archiving everything and infinitely available public data has been not-so-great. If this was an "archive with consent" sort of system, then sure. My response may be better summarized as, "Does IA support robots.txt, and if not why?"

There is some public discussion about why IA does not strictly adhere to robots.txt: https://blog.archive.org/2017/04/17/robots-txt-meant-for-sea...

They're basically saying they're choosing to ignore a web convention that explicitly states that people don't want their websites archived or searchable because they want them to be. Sounds pretty unethical to me.

Re: Internet Archive as a default host-of-record for startups

#110
post #9

The feature I most want from the Internet Archive is the ability to donate them an old domain name and enough cash to renew it for the next hundred years such that they can keep an archived version of a site available (without breaking any incoming links) for a very long time. They would also need to be able to handle legal administration costs of things like DMCA take-down notices, but I assume they already have to…

> The feature I most want from the Internet Archive The feature I most want from IA is a streamlined system to delete content they have archived on domains that I own, including a proper privacy law compliance effort on their part. They have intentionally made it a difficult, manual process to get content removed. They operate as a de facto malicious crawler. They massively violate GDPR with how they operate and few…

I can't speak to GDPR specifically because I'm not European, but a fair amount of laws have leeway for preservation purposes. (For example, section 108 of the Copyright Act in the US functionally exempts archives from being punished for copying provided they are doing so for preservation purposes).

There are very good reasons that archives will not destroy or alter information outside of very clear difficult and manual processes.

And actually, looking at it, I don't think they're necessarily in violation of GDPR [0].

Point 3 says: "Where personal data are processed for archiving purposes in the public interest, Union or Member State law may provide for derogations from the rights referred to in Articles 15, 16, 18, 19, 20 and 21 subject to the conditions and safeguards referred to in paragraph 1 of this Article in so far as such rights are likely to render impossible or seriously impair the achievement of the specific purposes, and such derogations are necessary for the fulfilment of those purposes."

According to GDPR, national law of EU parties overrules GDPR when it comes to personal data being used in archival context. I don't know every EU country's stance, but most of the bigger economies would allow for this.

There is also a difference between deleting the data and rendering it inaccessible to the public. Keeping something under wraps is generally more 'acceptable', but active destruction of the item (digital or not) and its providence is much more limited. Also there's a difference between personally identifying data (covered by GDPR), your content (which would be covered under copyright and not GDPR), and connections people can make if that content is available (not covered at all because it's not anybody else's issue if you write something terrible and people keep recognizing you over it so long as you did actually write it).

[0] https://gdpr-info.eu/art-89-gdpr/

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