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Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

economist.com

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Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#341

Post by sudosysgen »

stickfigure wrote: post #340
sudosysgen wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is naive. The government simply doesn't have that power. If they tried to downplay Taiwan people would be absolutely furious. The extent of "mind control" is really not that great. The internet exists, and despite imperfect controls people have access to information. It would probably take Xi down to try to abandon Taiwan.

Then maybe Xi should take more interest in the wellbeing of his people than in his personal political dynasty.

The obvious implication is that he will be replaced with someone that cares about Taiwan.

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#342

Post by GekkePrutser »

FooBarWidget wrote: post #191
ChemSpider wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no need for Mr. Xi to formally give up on Taiwan. He could just kick the can down the road for another few decades, like all his much smarter predecessors did. > China's people also believe that. Only because that is what they learn and hear (literally) daily, starting with kindergarten. Just reduce this crab step by step, and it will fade away. The same is true for this even more stupid 7-dash line. They dr…

Saying that viewing Taiwan that way as purely a consequence of propaganda is like saying that American patriotism, and the fact that Americans believe that the South's cecession is illegitimate or unrighteous, is purely a consequence of having taught people so since childhood. Yes education is a contributing factor. But it is my no means the only factor. Your take also ignores the fact that unification is Chinese cor…

Unification with an unwilling partner is basically the same as imperialism.

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#343

Post by whimsicalism »

tomp wrote: post #324
whimsicalism wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling disproportionate imprisonment (and racist imprisonment by ethnicity) "genocide" is genocide-trivialization, in my view. It wasn't a "genocide" when we imprisoned 1 in 3 black people in this country, even though it was pretty awful. The Holocaust was a genocide.

[flagged]

I disagree if the sterilization is applied even-handedly as an application of their two-child law. I am skeptical that a lineage is being exterminated if, at minimum, they can have replacement level number of births. The Uyghur population is growing faster than the Han population is.

But backing up a bit - really what I'm taking issue with is the word "genocide." We can call horrendous, human rights violating policies for what they are without having to fall back on calling something a "genocide."

Not everyone who disagrees with you is PRC funded. I would encourage you to look over the HN guidelines as you seem to have forgotten some of them. [0]

[0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#344

Post by sudosysgen »

BrazzVuvuzela wrote: post #334
sudosysgen wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course there is. Of course the West would still try to dispute it, but just like how the world saw through WMDs in Iraq if present with adequate evidence they would see through a thin denial.

> Of course the West would still try to dispute it Yeah, that's what I just said. > the world saw through WMDs in Iraq And Iraq got bombed anyway, it's a great example of how the actual validity of a casus belli doesn't matter.

>Yeah, that's what I just said. In that case I don't see how we disagree.

Of course it does matter. The invalidity is why the entire world was opposed to the US doing so. If the US wasn't in such a dominant economic and strategic position at the time it would have had to pay a much larger price.

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#345

Post by pmyteh »

whimsicalism wrote: post #338
scottLobster wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forced sterilization and religious conversion (not to mention the occasional organ harvesting) isn't genocide?

Let's recenter the definition of genocide. From google: > the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group Now to your points: > religious conversion 1. No, forced religious conversion is not genocide in my book. > Forced sterilization 2. Look, I'm not a fan of this law either, but sterilization in-lieu-of fine is one of the re…

Google's definition is not authoritative.

> ... any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, as such:

> (a) Killing members of the group;

> (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

> (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;

> (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;

> (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

> — Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, Article 2

The strongest case is for paragraph (d).

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#346

Post by whimsicalism »

pmyteh wrote: post #345
whimsicalism wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's recenter the definition of genocide. From google: > the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group Now to your points: > religious conversion 1. No, forced religious conversion is not genocide in my book. > Forced sterilization 2. Look, I'm not a fan of this law either, but sterilization in-lieu-of fine is one of the re…

Google's definition is not authoritative. > ... any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, as such: > (a) Killing members of the group; > (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; > (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in pa…

Is there a special law targeting Uyghurs? Or are Uyghurs (due to their religion) more likely to have higher birth rates that are in contravention of Chinese two-child law?

Another question - does a genocide necessarily require an actual reduction in the population of people being genocided?

I do agree that the strongest case is for (d) (or maybe c, actually), especially if Uyghur women are being sterilized with fewer than 2-3 births.

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#347

Post by sudosysgen »

Aeolun wrote: post #217
sudosysgen wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly right. The people that think China is going after Taiwan for no reason are greatly underestimating the realism of States.

I mean, it basically boils down to no reason though. People in China are happy. People in Taiwan are happy. What moron would start a war over it now?

No, there are a lot of strategic reasons beyond that.

People in China and Taiwan are happy as it is right now, yes. But if the status quo changes, for example if Taiwanese independence is recognized, people will become unhappy.

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#348

Post by sudosysgen »

mantas wrote: post #287
sudosysgen wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, of course. The alternative was that Germany takes all of Poland and gets to be more agressive against the allies. The Soviets taking half of Poland was a massive benefit for the allies.

Katyn or Rainiai or 1941 Deportations was a benefit to Allie’s too I guess :)

The dark truth is that probably, yes, it was a benefit to the Allies.

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#349

Post by cosmodisk »

geff82 wrote: post #260
motiejus wrote: post #200

I am Lithuanian; Lithuania Taiwan PRC conflict is frequently a topic of discussion these days among my peers. My position, shared by a few others, is that this is the next best thing that happened in Lithuania after leaving USSR: the first being joining NATO and EU in 2004. Everyone in the world can (and almost everyone do) endorse PRC. "You won't get fired for picking IBM/Oracle/PRC". While very few countries have t…

What interesting software or locally producing electronics companies are there in Lithuania? I will by something from them instantly.

Software:NordVPN.

Hardware: Deeper,Teltonika.

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#350

Post by [deleted] »

whimsicalism wrote: post #343
tomp wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I disagree if the sterilization is applied even-handedly as an application of their two-child law. I am skeptical that a lineage is being exterminated if, at minimum, they can have replacement level number of births. The Uyghur population is growing faster than the Han population is. But backing up a bit - really what I'm taking issue with is the word "genocide." We can call horrendous, human rights violating policie…

[deleted]
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