Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China • Hacker News Board

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#301

Post by BrazzVuvuzela » Sun, Dec 19, 2021, 5:00 PM UTC

sudosysgen wrote: post #274

BrazzVuvuzela wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China could accuse Taiwan of developing nuclear weapons today, saying their spies uncovered the plot. Would you, I or anybody else be able to refute it? Would our doubt matter? And if Taiwan really did start manufacturing nuclear bombs and China was telling the truth about it, would you, I or others in the West believe them? The 'actual validity' of a casus belli has never really counted for much.

The difference is that, if they actually did start manufacturing the bomb, China would almost certainly be able to provide incontrovertible evidence. If they didn't provide evidence, yes, we coule refute it. The West will pretend that Taiwan wasn't doing that anyways. That's why I said 80%.

> Not capable of being denied, challenged, or disputed; closed to questioning.

There is no such thing as incontrovertible evidence.

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#302

Post by jackTheMan » Sun, Dec 19, 2021, 5:01 PM UTC

pphysch wrote: post #241

1. Beijing rejects being merely the "workshop" of the unipolar world, embraces sovereignty (GFW), high quality development (HSR), technological innovation (4IR), including in the military space (space, cyber, hypersonics). Oh and BRI. 2. Washington doesn't like that because it will displace the unipolar moment. USA has been in economic decline for half a century while PRC has been on a dramatic rise. Washington tries…

Honestly I've never liked americans because of arrogance and the way of dealing with things, but the Communist-China really unites all democracy as it is a nightmare utopia. Can't imagine anybody reasonable wants to give more power/influence to a country that destroys all differences (in minorities), killing the languages, traditions, old structures everything traditional. There is even less value there than in US, money is the god, and who is a cheater is the smart. The rule is by force.

Did you see that the government hired thugs to beat up it's own people in HK? (and after used the police directly to do this?) It's said if a small irrelevant country is doing this, but if this becomes the standard of a global power, well I don't want to be nearby.

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#303

Post by wetpaws » Sun, Dec 19, 2021, 5:02 PM UTC

viktorcode wrote: post #291

synergy20 wrote: post #225

Here is a perspective on China's current aggressiveness: those in power are from the culture-revolution age(1966-1976), which means they did not get good education(if anything at all). Most of them are not even middle-school graduates. Their youth time are filled with beating those well educated ones based on ideologies accusations. Xi himself did not even finish middle school, his professional skill is the worst com…

It should be noted that Xi is a son of a victim of Culture Revolution.

Bullied grow up to become bullies

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#304

Post by LambdaTrain » Sun, Dec 19, 2021, 5:02 PM UTC

synergy20 wrote: post #225

Here is a perspective on China's current aggressiveness: those in power are from the culture-revolution age(1966-1976), which means they did not get good education(if anything at all). Most of them are not even middle-school graduates. Their youth time are filled with beating those well educated ones based on ideologies accusations. Xi himself did not even finish middle school, his professional skill is the worst com…

He completed BE in Chemical Engineering from Tsinghua University [1].

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xi_Jinping

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#305

Post by sudosysgen » Sun, Dec 19, 2021, 5:03 PM UTC

thesuperbigfrog wrote: post #293

sudosysgen wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China has a military strong enough to credibly take on the US, the UK, Australia and Japan in their backyard. That is because, as you'll note, these powers are all thousands and thousands of kilometers away from the theater, which gives China a massive advantage. The best they could realistically do if the invasion does succeed is try to force an embargo. This will be massively unpopular, kill tens of thousands in th…

>> these powers are all thousands and thousands of kilometers away from the theater, which gives China a massive advantage. The past 100 years of wars and military conflicts have shown that military logistics can overcome great distances if needed. Great distances and economic consequences did not stop past wars. I doubt they would stop a war caused by the invasion of Taiwan. >> This will be massively unpopular, kill…

The past 100 years of wars have show precisely the opposite to the observant.

Great distance stopped many, many wars. It is the reason the US is so rich, right now.

Economic consequences did not stop actual wars, yes. But in the event that an embargo is the only realistic alternative, it is a very powerful factor.

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#306

Post by puzzlingcaptcha » Sun, Dec 19, 2021, 5:03 PM UTC

Krasnol wrote: post #168

VictorPath wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wish whole of EU would declare in unison support for Taiwan. Sure, Spain can take a break from hunting down Catalonian referendum politicians in France, or hunting down the Basque separatists that Franco didn't wipe out in Guernica, and can declare Taiwan should be an independent country. The British PM can visit soldiers in Thiepval, Holywood or other UK barracks in north Ireland and declare support of Taiwan br…

Impressively colourful whataboutism. Are we supposed to order them by which may be even close to what we see with Taiwan or doesn't it matter at all?

The parent you are responding to has a very colorful comment history too, with a certain theme to it. Strangely only in political threads.

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#307

Post by sudosysgen » Sun, Dec 19, 2021, 5:04 PM UTC

BrazzVuvuzela wrote: post #301

sudosysgen wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is that, if they actually did start manufacturing the bomb, China would almost certainly be able to provide incontrovertible evidence. If they didn't provide evidence, yes, we coule refute it. The West will pretend that Taiwan wasn't doing that anyways. That's why I said 80%.

> Not capable of being denied, challenged, or disputed; closed to questioning. There is no such thing as incontrovertible evidence.

Of course there is. Of course the West would still try to dispute it, but just like how the world saw through WMDs in Iraq if present with adequate evidence they would see through a thin denial.

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#308

Post by mcguire » Sun, Dec 19, 2021, 5:04 PM UTC

FooBarWidget wrote: post #222

petilon wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> unification is Chinese core value Is warring with all neighbors a core value too? Chinese government, through censorship, controls the minds of the Chinese people. The government needs to update the core values.

My point is that whether the west thinks the Chinese ought to think that way, is not very important. People can debate that all day long, but at the end of the day the Chinese do think that way, and they are willing to fight for it. This has strategical implications. Do we want to grandstand or do we want to actually solve a problem? If we want to grandstand at all cost, then we have to wage war with China and force…

The rest of the world has been giving on this issue for at least 30 years. How's that going?

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#309

Post by k_sze » Sun, Dec 19, 2021, 5:04 PM UTC

synergy20 wrote: post #225

Here is a perspective on China's current aggressiveness: those in power are from the culture-revolution age(1966-1976), which means they did not get good education(if anything at all). Most of them are not even middle-school graduates. Their youth time are filled with beating those well educated ones based on ideologies accusations. Xi himself did not even finish middle school, his professional skill is the worst com…

Stop spreading nonsense.

Xi Jinping studied chemical engineering. Zhu Rongji studied electrical engineering.

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#310

Post by hollerith » Sun, Dec 19, 2021, 5:05 PM UTC

FooBarWidget wrote: post #208

zucker42 wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't buy this. If the government would stop making "reunification" so prominent in official rhetoric, eventually there would be room to back down from the hardline view on Taiwan. Maybe not tomorrow, but certainly in 30 or 50 years. The government is feeding the flames of nationalism by making Taiwan such a prominent issue. The reason the CCP won't back down on Taiwan is not because they can't, but exactly because…

Saying that Taiwan is merely a nationalism and internal unity issue, and that people's views are merely a result of propaganda, ignores the very history of how Taiwan came to be and how the Chinese civil war developed. Your take also ignores the fact that unification is Chinese core value, which is valued more than western freedom of speech, and that this core value has been around for thousands of years. But more im…

>unification is Chinese core value, which is valued more than western freedom of speech, and that this core value has been around for thousands of years.

I don't have an opinion on that. Just want to point out that out of the previous 2500 years, China has been unified for only 500 years, and 300 of those 500 years was spent under the yoke of a foreign invader (the Mongols).