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Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

economist.com

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Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#251

Post by jeswin »

alkonaut wrote: post #243

China has already started pressuring companies with manufacturing in China such as Continental, that they should get out of Lithuania or risk losing access to the Chinese market. This just goes to show one thing: western companies have to leave the Chinese market and all its money on the table . Unless you are ready to live under constant threat of political pressure/blackmail, risk being spied on, forced to censorsh…

> This just goes to show one thing: western companies have to leave the Chinese market and all its money on the table.

Part of the problem is that executive compensation is more short-term results focused.

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#252

Post by baka367 »

A Lithuanian here

Moral questions aside (as everyone here seems to focus on it), the people are split into roughly three camps: - Anti-vaxers: hate anything government because Vax-Pass, including the China oriented diplomacy - Libtards: love anything government and worship the leader of the main party. They celebrate this and openly bash China because their Leader said that it is good - Non-involved people - worry about the economic consequences to businesses and people's lives. Most of them would have a hard time finding Taiwan (probably even China) on a blank map.

In my opinion:

Our Minister of Foreign Affairs went into this without really understanding what it would mean to the CCP and what possible counter-actions they can take. Lithuania was hit more than the politicians expected and we are, essentially, alone in this fight (save for endorsements and pats on the back). I guess that we will be in a pretty rough spot in short-term, while mid/long term can go either way depending on how the western powers and Taiwan will act.

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#253

Post by LatteLazy »

thesuperbigfrog wrote: post #216
LatteLazy wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China could take Taiwan and I don't think anyone would stop them. But the aftermath would be pretty terrible. The US and EU would lock them out of the their economies, as would basically every country in the region except NK. Economic collapse would ensue and that would likely lead to a revolution: the CCP have basically ruled on a "give up freedom and get economic opportunity" ticket. If they can't deliver... There…

>> China could take Taiwan and I don't think anyone would stop them. I am inclined to believe that it would look similar to Iraq invading Kuwait, only 100000 times bigger and bloodier. I think the US, UK, Australia, Japan, and many EU nations would strongly disapprove and take military action.

None of us know exactly what different leaders are planning so you may well be right.

I do wonder though: if that is the USs plan, why not say so? The US has formal alliances with NATO, Japan etc. They're public, because making them public dissuades the chance of an attack. If you're going to risk getting into a war, why not minimise the risk at no cost by being upfront about it? Instead the US maintains a position of "strategic ambiguity".

It would also be hard because China isn't Iraq. It's a nuclear nation with a bigger stronger army and much better morale. And Taiwan is an Island. You can't mass your troops 100m from the border and then march over when ready. The allies would need to do an amphibious landing less than 200 miles from the Chinese coast (aka air force), under fire from subs and against a fortified target.

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#254

Post by FooBarWidget »

sudosysgen wrote: post #181
ridewinter wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If China went democratic then Taiwan wouldn't have much issue with becoming part of it, right? Once people taste freedom they tend to not want to give it up, no matter how messy.

Obviously they would. If China was democratic they would probably elect a more repressive and economically left wing government. At least that's until the private sector buys enough political influence. Democracy != Liberal democracy.

Hey I notice you're getting downvoted a lot. Wanna get in touch? Find my contact details in my profile. Twitter preferred

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#255

Post by croes »

maxdo wrote: post #201
croes wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's naive world view. Putin wouldn't have happened with capitalist errors under Yelzin. And the west never cared about whom to work with as long the got their needed resources. And the west has a long tradition of using countries with lack of environmental and human rights to produce their products or get needed resources. We complain about Ukraine and Taiwan but about the Yemen we don't care. Because there seem t…

that's the same problem just some of them causing west troubles, some of them don't. The question is why we even allow to do so. Wasn't that clear in 2014 with russia that it's extremely aggressive? Kicking out russia from economy in 2014 would prevent such events. China also had so many times you can stop it, or at least put the world on other track. it's not about capitalism. Current time is the most close to WWIII…

>economy in 2014 would prevent such events

So they would not have to lose? That's a guaranteed way to war. Mutual dependence prevents wars.

>You just need to hit hard.

And then? We are talking about nuclear powers here? What will happen when their backs are against the wall and they don't have much to lose?

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#256

Post by xwolfi »

rayiner wrote: post #246
Pmop wrote: post #218

> packages(/containers) from PRC are delayed or cancelled, invoices are not being paid, we are losing business there I think the whole western world should stop playing games with the bully state that is PRC.

Who is China bullying except it’s own people?

Taiwanese people?

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#257

Post by Aeolun »

VictorPath wrote: post #152
albeva wrote: post #54

I wish whole of EU would declare in unison support for Taiwan. Wonder if China would kick out every single EU nation embassy then?

> I wish whole of EU would declare in unison support for Taiwan. Sure, Spain can take a break from hunting down Catalonian referendum politicians in France, or hunting down the Basque separatists that Franco didn't wipe out in Guernica, and can declare Taiwan should be an independent country. The British PM can visit soldiers in Thiepval, Holywood or other UK barracks in north Ireland and declare support of Taiwan br…

> Maybe after an EU council meeting denouncing the people of Crimea voting to be annexed into Russia

I think the problem there was that the vote came after the annexation. Or the voting method was so untrustworthy it might as well have been made up.

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#258

Post by baybal2 »

ipaddr wrote: post #38
pokepim wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate that China vs US thing comes down to race things, like it’s us white americans vs those bad chinese. Even American companies are now bad since they dare to sell to chinese people and only care about profits but not the fragile white american ego. It’s especially visible on Hacker News, asian bashing is so common but I guess it’s mostly due to demographics (right wing white americans mostly lurk forums like the…

You realize many American are from Chinese decent. Not selling to a citizen of China regardless of race (not all Chinese are from the same race) is much different than not selling to anyone who has a Chinese gene. The nation state you think China and the US to be doesn't exist.

Most Chinese Americans are extreme right wing, and that includes ones who aren't specifically Taiwanese, or Fukienese Americans.

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#259

Post by manuelabeledo »

FooBarWidget wrote: post #227
manuelabeledo wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having been to both Taiwan and China several times - this is a bit inaccurate. Yes, there is a certain believe among Chinese that Taiwan is an inalienable part of their territory, but most don't believe that reunification should be achieved by force. There is also the idea that Taiwanese people are indeed different from mainland Chinese, but at the same time, any strong Taiwanese identity is the result of propaganda…

The context of my post is that I replied to another post that talked about the west fighting China. Hence, I did not say people believe reunification needs to be achieved by force. What I did say is that if foreign forces pressure China into letting Taiwan go, then China will fight back.

> I did not say people believe reunification needs to be achieved by force.

Then this line:

> if the president lets go of Taiwan, the CCP would be overthrown tomorrow.

doesn't make much sense to me. Who would overthrow the CCP, if not the Chinese people? And if they would be willing to do that, why wouldn't they believe in achieving reunification by force?

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#260

Post by geff82 »

motiejus wrote: post #200

I am Lithuanian; Lithuania Taiwan PRC conflict is frequently a topic of discussion these days among my peers. My position, shared by a few others, is that this is the next best thing that happened in Lithuania after leaving USSR: the first being joining NATO and EU in 2004. Everyone in the world can (and almost everyone do) endorse PRC. "You won't get fired for picking IBM/Oracle/PRC". While very few countries have t…

What interesting software or locally producing electronics companies are there in Lithuania? I will by something from them instantly.
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